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HomeMy WebLinkAboutUNPLATTED TOWN OF VAIL I-70 VARIABLE MESSAGE BOARDST'{ t: MEMORANDUM Planning and Environmental Commission Community Developmenl Department December9,1996 A request for a worksession to discuss an amendment to Section 16.20.020, and to add Section 16.04.065 to the Sign Code to allow lor and define electronic signs as Public Information Signs. c0Pv TO: FROM: DATE: SUBJECT: Applicant: Planner: Vail Associates, Inc., represented by Joe Macy Dirk Mason I. DESCRIPTION OF THE FEOUEST The applicant Vail Associates, Inc., represented by Joe Macy, is requesting a worksession to discuss amending the Town of Vail Municipal Code. The applicant is proposing that Section 16.20.020, Sign categories and regulations for all zoning districts except CC3 and ABD of the Municipal Code be amended to allow for variable electronic message signs as a public information sign. Public information signs are used to display information which is a benefit to the public. Public information signs identify special events, community activities, public information and directional information. Public information signs do not allow the display of private advertising. II. BACKGROUND The applicant proposes to locate variable message signs in the three base areas, the pedestrian entrances to the Village and Lionshead parking structures and at the top of Blue Cow Chute. Vail Associates hopes to achieve, through this proposal, the following goals: 1. To continue a cooperative effort between the ski industry and the Colorado Department of Transportation along the l-70 corridor to improve highway status to our guests. Particularly, if the pass is closed, the signs will inform the guests ol transportation situations as they are leaving the mountain, or enlering the parking structures. 2. To encourage guests to remain in Vail, rather than parked along l-70 when the pass is closed. 3. To provide public information on specialevents. 4. To reduce the number of vehicles seeking parking at Golden Peak by providing a sign at Blue Cow Chute. This proposal is not the first discussion of using variable message signage within the Town of Vail. The use of variable message signage was originally discussed with the Golden Peak development proposal as part ot the Operational Management Plan. The Operational Management Plan calls out electronic signage as a Tier ll management strategy. The plan states, "Based upon ihe impacts of traffic congestion and as transportation needs demand, the TOV will implement'an electronic signage program which would display messages -on the Town arteribls regarding traffic conditions within the Town parking garages, drop-off zone traffic status conditions and lift maze conditions at the base portals." With the exception of the Blue Cow Chute sign, the applicant's proposal does not address the objective of the Operational Management Plan's use of electronic signage. The Town of Vail is allowed to erect and operate variable message signs as regulated by_Section 16.24.010(B). Section 16.24.010(B) exempts, from the requirements of the Sign Code, ,Officid government notices and notices posted by governmental offices in the perlormance of their duties, governmental signs to control traffic or for other regulatory purposes, or to identity streets' or to wa'rn of danger." Therefore, governmental signs and traffic control signs may be variable message signs. However, Vail Associates or other private sector entities are prohibited from erecting variable message sign because of Section 16.26.010(C). Currently, Section 16.26.010(C) of the . . .. . Prohibited Signs chapter of the Town of Vail Municipal Code does not allow for, "Signs with lights or illuminations which flash, move, roiate, scintillate, blink, flicker, vary in intensi$, vary in color, or use intermittent electrical pulsation." Therefore, the applicant is proposing to amend the sign code to add Section 16.04.065 a definition of variable message sign and to include variable message signs as a public information sign in Section 16.20.020, Public Information Signs. Variable message signs are proposed to be subject to a conditional use permit. III. PROPOSED TEXT CHANGES The proposed changes are shown below. Chapter 16.04 Definitions SAction'it,i Ghapter 16.20 Section 1 Signs Permltted, Categorles and Regulations 6.20.020 Public Information Signs Public information signs shall be regulated as follows: A. Purpose - Display board or kiosk with the intended use of locating posters' hanbouts and caids identifvino Community activities, special events and persenal buhlE :ano',rutiecrtonal i ntorm aion,i lncfudinb,renspo'iuti6-n, .i nlof.rxafl 0n; B. Size - The size of the display board or kiosk shall be determined during design review. C. Height - Subject to design review, D. Number - Subject to design review. E. Location ' Subject lo design review. F. Design - Subject to design review. G. Lighting - lndirect or pan channeled. H. Landscaping - Subject to design review. l: Sp al,..piofiehn.e:,sEalliiffiiefiifdlows: 1. Display board and kiosk type of signs shall be constructed, erected and maintained by the Municipal government, or with their permission. 2. Variableme$eeoe.bign$, a!!',b,e.$ubjec1,lq,ia',Coffiiti6nai:.Us,e',petmitr S: Allsign regulations shaltapBjy,;16-,rv,siiab!e me$$age,,,$i0ns with,,the, exception, of $ection 1 8,-26,0 :l 0(C). IV. METHODS OF PROPOSAL EVALUATION In considering variable message sign proposals, staff believes that Chapter 16.16, Design Review Guidelines for signs and Section 18.60.060, Criteria-Findings, of lhe Town of Vail Municipal Code are appropriate. The following conditional use permit criteria effectively address the use of variable electronic message signs. Eflect upon traffic, with particular reference to congestion, automotive and pedestrian safety and convenience, traffic flow and control, access, maneuverability, and removal of snow from streets and parking areas; . Elfect upon the character of the area in which the proposed use is to be located, including the scale and bulk of the proposed use in relation to surrounding uses; . Such other factors and criteria as the commission deems applicable to the proposed use. V. DISCUSSION ITEMS As this is a worksession to discuss the applicant's proposal, staff has identified issues which we would like to discuss with the Planning and Environmental Commission and the applicant. Each issue is described below. 1.USE OF VARIABLE MESSAGE SIGNS In discussing the amendment to the sign code, staff expressed concern regarding the regulation of the message displayed on the sign. In particular, how does the Town iontrol the sign from being used for advertising or from messages such as "Vail thanks the Badger Ski Club" or "Eagle's Nest is now Open"? Staff discussed the possibility ol the Town of Vail operating the variable message signs to ensure the signs are used for their intended purpose rather than advertising. Staff would like to discuss with the Planning and Environmental Commission and the applicant, how variable message signs in the Town of Vail could be regulated to ensure appropriate messages. SIGN LOCATION During the Sign Code amendment discussion, staff expressed concern over the potential locations of variable message signs. In particular, the variable message sign's effect upon the character of Vail. Statf believes that the sign locations will need to be carefully evaluated during conditional use permit review. Specifically, location will be addressed when reviewing the proposal in relation to the "Effect upon the character of the area in which the proposed use is to be located, including the scale and bulk of lhe proposed use in relation to surrounding uses." MOVEMENT As stated previously, Section 16.26.010(C) of the Prohibited Signs chapter does not allow for, i'Signs with lights or illuminations which flash, move, rotate, scintillate, blink, flicker, vary in intensity, vary in color, or use intermittent electrical pulsation." Eleclronic message signs may incorporate many of the above described movements when a message is displayed. Stalf is proposing that variable message signs be exempt from Section 16.26.010(C). Staff believes that the use of variable message signs as public information signs is appropriate, however, the movement should remain static or be limited to horizontal scrolling. HOURS of OPERATION Staff believes the hours of operation should best be addressed via the conditional use permit. SIZE REOUIREMENT Currently the size of public information signs are subject to design review. Statf believes that the size of the electronic message signs can be effectively evaluated via design review and the conditional use permit application. 2. J. 4. 5. 6. EVALUATIVE METHODS The Planning and Environmental Commission should consider if each of the issues can be effectively addressed through design review and the conditional use permit or il the issues should be reflected in the code amendment with specific requirements. VI. STAFF REGOMMENDATION Since this is a worksession discussing proposed text amendments lo Section 16.20.020 of the Town ol Vail Municipal Code and not a request for a formal recommendation from the Planning and Environmental Commission to the Town Gouncil, staff will not be providing a recommendation at this time. Staff will however, provide a recommendation on the applicant's proposal at the time of final review. The applicant is currently scheduled to reappear before the Planning and Environmental Commission for final review on Monday, December 19, 1996. f :\everyone\pec\memosVasign.d09 Planning Advisory Service Am€iican Plarnirq 46Eoclation 122 South Michigan Avanuo Suite 1 600 Chicago, lL 60603-6107 Phone; 312.431.91O0 Fax: 312.431 .9985 ll,,l',,,ll,ll,,rl,l,l,,,l,l,l,ll,,,,l,,l,,ll,,,,lll Dirk Mason Vail Town Community Development Department 75 S Frontage Rd. W Vail, CO 81657-5043 23-Dw-96 DPM/g135 Planning Advisory Service - Packing List Note: Di*, Enclosed please find the information that you requested on regulating electronic message board sigrrs and time and temperature sigts. IVe included sample regulations from other communities and a couple of informational pieces on this topic. Some of the ordinances categorize both ofthese siens in the sanre way, and some diferentiate between them. If these signs are not directly addressed in the ordinances, there is usually something listed untler illumination or illumination of signs regarding their use. I looked through many ordinances, and a lot of them do not address these types of sigrr at all. I hope this information helps you out. If you have any questions or ne€d additional assistance, please do not hesitate to call. **i*SPECIAL CALL FOR INT'ORMA'TION**** We are currcntly looking for information on housing in the downtown area. Send material to the addr$s above or email copies to pasinquiries@pl4nning;ofg. Tbanks! This inquiry was completed by 12/n/e6 From: Dirk Mason Bob Mcl-aurin, corey schmlde, DR.! GROI'P, Greg HaL1, Greg Morrison,.fim Hoza, Larry Grafe]-, Suzanne Si]"verts}.orrr, Terri. Partctl, Tom Moortreadsubjects. variab]-e Messagfe Siqns Your attendance at the nexts DRT meetrl-nq, 9:OO a.m- on wed 12/18, eo di€cr-r6s ttre Town I s ro].e in -variable messag|e signe is trigftrl]z requestsed. DRT meeti-ngs are hel-d in tsb.e ]-ar.qe conf . rm. in com- De\Z. This discussion is a resu]-t of aproposal by vA to ].ocate variab].e messag|e siqns in ttre fo]-].owl-ng 1oca.ts ions . 1) Ttre tshree base areas- 2) At Ehe pedestrian entrances tso Ltte Vi].].age and Lionstread parking s cructllres . 3 ) Ttre top of B]-ue Cow Ctrube . lFt\e purpose of the signs are uopr1marliy disptay the road condj.tions of ! - 7 O eas tbor-rnd . Ttris ig parts of a. cooperaLiare efforc between tshe ski industry and CDOT. The discussion ats DRT wj-ll primari]-y f oc].rs on tshe f ollowing iggtres i * c]-a.rif ication on SecEi-ont6 -24. O1-O (B) , exelnpt sig|ns. * T].peg of pub1ic information mesrsagfes to be disl)l-alted - * WLro strould otr)erate Lbe signs? 'Iov - dispaEctr? other? VA?cootr)erative efforts (vA & Tov) ? * ff TOV is invo].ved in theop€ratsl-on, ho\^t is tshis bestsaccomp].istred? * Deisgn Issues s ca.ndard s ize (s) he iqtrts eEc * !.fhat i5 ttre appropriate reviewprocess for vari-ab1e messaqesiqns?DRlt - if exempt Joe Mady from VA has loeen i-nvl-ted CoparEicipa.te in the discussj.on - Tharrk you in a.dva.nce for your atbendance - "-lSrcr 6ec* Aeray DAP b.t( tOr-. ^r, C 6E6aCe AAI"P LAu,iSrt lu t<E- rq ?'t,'r Gt^33 Sr.r tl^t - < 1-l a:, *t 21! ,t\s Page: 1 TOLJI] a' OF VRIL COM-DEV ID : sl-g.g;24s2 TOWNOFVATL B. DBSCRIPIIONOfntERPQUBST:.Amenaing zo"ing' in ski base ,/ recrbation CC I and,II zone disttricts. C. LOCATIONOFFROPOSAL: L,OT.--BLOCK-:PILING ADDRESS; . ..' BUtrDIII|GNAM& ZONING: *fl* il; n *',ffi ,il;'"1'"i-;,',1 APFLICATION TOR, PLANNING AND ENNRONMENTAL COMMIS.$ON APPROVAL @ ff,ie ayrpi."tlnn is for my projo€t nquidng aploval by fic Ptmning snd Bnvimntncot|l Commiesiot' For rpcific informition, sco tho sgbrnittal rcqgiremcnb forfbc.pdoilr approvd frgtlr roquo|0cd. The rpdicrtiott csn-rpt bc accqrcd *lit .U rqgircd infometion in rubmllto4- Tho projsct nrry rbo'ncd to bc rcuiEw€d by thc Towtt Council andor the Dcsign Rwicur Boad' A. TYPIIOFAPPLICATION:O Additiond ORFA (250) tr Bcd md Broakfosttr Conddonrl UroPcnitO Majuu D MlnorSubdivision tr RczqdnCtr SipVsisncctr Vuianco F( ZoningCodcAmcndment r.. i IJn tr Amsrdmdb an APFUvcd Dcvdotrtlcnt Plan tr BnplryQcllousingUnltfiPo:tr Mejdctr MinorCCI EncriorAltsrdoo (Vsll Vlllrsp)tr MaJrc tr MinorCCIl &dcrlorAlGation (IJoqrhsrd) Spooial Dorclopmont Dirbict Mqic or tr lutinsAmsdncnt to sn SDD D. E.NAMtsOF OWNBR(S)r VaiI, CO , 479-3012 F. c, owNER(S)8IGNA NAMEOFRBFRESBMA II/|AILING AIIDRESS;'vail, co 81658 " 1" FEE - SEE THE SUBMITTAL nrquiiEUeXrS FOR fiEAFFROPRIA1E FBE. SUAMIT THIS APPLTCATTOI{, AI.L SUBMITTAL REQUI!trMENTS AND TIIE FTE TO THE DEDARTMEM OT COMMIJNITY XTEYELOPMENT'.7s SOUTB TRONTAGE ROAD' V.NI^ COLORADO tl6t?, nwl|d5D6 TOIilN I OF URIL CBM-DEU ID:5U47s-2452 ocT 17',L 10 :52 No .002 P .01 PETITION FOR, AN MINNOTUTTTT Tt) TIIE ?I}NING ORDINANCE . SUBMTITALNDQUIREUNNTS BBls-APpr rc aTrphl coNEnENCE @ietoaing $df mcnba b rboogly omruqSod" No application *it Uu i&+toC unlo* it ic ootpls, tt it tho atltlictril'r roqponrlbiliS to tnrlc stt rDFointnmot win tlo raiTb Cctsnfutc' rdddul lhmitral roquirunme S T TRWITAL RFOT IRFMFTIN\ FEE: $2:t0.00. Ths tu [l|s b! p.u A ths tirrc dnrbmittrl. A writt6n Jumndy of ths rcqu6g, irduding r dclcrtpdon ddre changs md rcasuu for thc rcquost TII'IEREOUIREMENTS 't'hc Plrrdng and Environmonnl.Gommicciqr mecb ur tto 2nd urd 4th Mudryr of ooh month' A compHe rpplicOimfun ud dt rccorprnying mdcdrl (sdc$ribod sbovc) mud bs rpc6trrt€d by the Coomuniry Dcvotqrmart D4l|n*by So appophf nfunitbl drF. wldoh lr a minimum of fou (4) wcekspim m tlro dan oftho IEC nrblio hcrlA& heompleo rpplicatioru (ar dacmfncd by tho plaming rh$ will not bc rmqtod- RrivJEwcRmRrA You prqoral wlll bo rwiowod ftr srpliatne with Vritl Cmfahonrivc Plan, AnnrnoNAr . R8f,nnw Arrn FEBS A, tf tlis ryplicrtion rcquie e rcpanre rtrview by en], lood, Stato s Fodoral agcnry olhcr lhan the Tosn of Vril. tho qpFflottiot fto slnll bc itlcnm3 bv $200.00. Exlrylc of ach ro,iow, ms}l inolud& Dtrl ir! Dot linit€d tO: Colondo Dryanmcnt of lliglway Aocass P*milD. Arny Ctnpe of BnCinocn 44 &. B. Tho rpplicant chalt bc rcpomriblc for payilrg uy publlghitlS fos wbich grc in cxocce of 507r of tlc eplic*im fra tf, at thc 4pHcnrfr tqpcdr sny rnatcr ir porpod for bcaring carsingth€ nrfi.|'b be|E.PubllAd, tben6c ontirc fmforcuch rc-publioatim rhall be paid by te rppllont. C. ApplicatimrdocmdbytboCommudtrDwolopmdDcpartncnttohevodcrig,lalduso c otlra isrcr wbicb nny hrrro a rirnif,ernr imFrd u thc aomrnrnity rnry rcryire rwics' by oonrultur6 in addldm b Tou,n nd. thorrld a dc6nrinalim b€ mda by ths Tourn [tafi. tta 6r ordridE csnrlit6tlc loodc4 tr€ Cornnruniiy Detelopneot Dqarunor rnay lirc thc conrultrnt, Thc Dqrartmclrt rhdl crtirnrto thc alrunt of,rnoney nccarrlr!, to pry thc oq6,la6gyt rhic anout$dl bo funrsdodlo ilroTown bythsrmlioantatthetiup sf filing ar ryplioaiiur; Eqrqucs imllld by thc Tgwn ln sxscsc of tho mount fuwardcd by tlo appticurt rlall bc 1rld to 6c Tou,D by trc Tpligrnt wlthin 30 dayr of notifiodicnt by the . Towl, Any cmor frnrle wtll bc ram€d to tlrc ryPlicut upon rcview compl*iut. EI If v. Mr. MikeMollica Departrnent of Community Development Town of Vail 75 S. Frontage Road West Yail,CO81657 November 4,1996 RE: REQIJEST TO AMEND SIGN CODE Dear Mike, The purpose of this letter is to provide more details for your review of the attached application to amend the sign code. Vail Associates, Inc. wishes to install electronic signs (computer controlled variable message signs) in 3 of our base areas as well as at the entrances of the village and Lionshead parking structures. It is also possible that this type of sign could be installed at the northeast comer of the Village parking structure at the Blue Cow Chute area. The primary purpose of these signs would be part of an on-going cooperative effortbetween the ski industry and CDOT along the I-70 corridor to improve highway status information to our guests. ln particular, if I-70 is blocked, we want to inform our guests of the situation as they leave the mountain or belore they enter the parking structures. This gives them the option to continue skiing, shop, have a meal or refreshment in town until the situation is resolved. This should prevent exacerbation of tra-ffic problems on I-70 by keeping the cars off the road until the road is open. Secondly, the signs could be used to provide public information on special events, etc. The sign at the Blue Cow Chute would be used to reduce the amount of vehicles seeking public parking at the Golden Peak area. This is a long terrr neighborhood request. I could envision a similar sign at the south side of the south roundabout. This request is not to conduct advertising on these signs. I will be glad to answer any questions you might have. Thank you for your aseistance on this matter. Regards, fu*ry/Joe Macy Govemmental Affairs Vail Associates, Inc. CO}TDMONAL USE PERMITS !e granted in accordance with the procedure prescribed in Chaprer 18.62. (ord. 16(1978) g aG); ord. 8(1973) $ 18.s00.) 18.60.060 Criteria-Findings. A. Before acting on a conditional use permit application, the planning commission shall corrsider the following factors with respect to the proposed use:l. Relationship and impact of the use ,on development objectives of the town;2. Effect of the use on light and air, distribution of population, transportation facilities, utilities, schools, parks and recreation facilities, and other public facilities and public facilities needs;3. Effect upon traffic, with particular reference to congestion, automotive and pedestrian safety and convenience, traffic flow and control, access, maneuverability, and removal of snow.from the streets and parking areas;4. Effect upon the character of the area in which the proposed use is to be located, including the scale and /'r'/ bulk of the proposed use in relation to surrounding uses;5. Such other factors and criteria as the commission deems applicable to the proposed use;6. The environmental impact report concerning the proposed use, if an environmental impact report is required by Chapter 18.56; 7. Prior to the approval of a conditional use perinit for a tinre-share estate. fractional fee or time-share license proposal, the applicant shall submit to the town a list' i of all owners of existing units within the-project or building; and written statements from one hundred per- cent of the owners of existing units indicating their --'-.approvaL -without . condition,,.of .the proposed time- share, fractional fee or time-share license. No written approval shall be valid if it was signed by., the owner more than sixty days prior to the date of filing the application for a conditional .use. All buildings 4Tt 0ril a-7-92) November 27. 1996 D[H*"V,U ,FR"O What's hap ning to keep the passes opeq? ! By Allen Best 'l'imx Managing Editor TWo winters after Interstate 70 betwcen Vail and Denver closed a tecord 35 times, significant changes have been made. In all probability, the highway rvill close again this winter, but maybe not evcn the 12 times it closed last year. Here's what's new: i ' Truckersf Last year the state legislature jacked up fines for truckers who scoff at the chain law First, the new fine for failure to put on chains is $loo, triple the old fine. Second, a rucker who block the road can be fined $500. Authorities hope that with more than a slap of a wrist, truckers will think tlvice before imorins the law. I Tluckers are geping more chain-up areas. In past years, truckers chained up near the East \,lail exit. This fall, three new or to deal lvith the general mayhem. E Srate patrol cars nolv havc citizens' band radios, the better to communicate to truckers well before they get to the base of the passes if road conditions arc poor or the pass is closed. Vail fusociates bought the radios for the troopers. The thinking is that if truckers realized poor conditions were ahead, they could stop at Eagle, for example, and wait out the storm instead of arriving at Vail and clogging up limited parking spaces amid miserable weatner. Highway malntenance crewsI Inadequate staffing was identified as perhaps the single biggest problem in the fiasco of the 1994-95 winter. By March of that winter, highway maintenance crews' along I-70 had lost half their seasonal help. Manpower was so l.acking that pan-time help was solicited as far' away as Denver, and then driven to the mogntains daily to drive snowplows. Even t}rat drastic effon yielded too few and too late. , ,. ,.. . In response, the Colorado Department of Transportation improved benefits and wages.. Seasonal snowplow operators are now covered T fully by insurance. Moreover, Vai[ Associatcs provided housing for one employee, and had agreed toprovided housing for one employee, and had agreed to more. Housing, though, wasn't the key problem. lmproved wases and benefits did vield a full staff last winter. and up period occurring in late aftemoon, just as the highway absorbs maximum traffic. Liquid dciccr (magnesium chloride) is intended to lower the melting pcint to about 20 degrees, resulting in that uicky freeze-up tinre occur- ring later in the evening, instead of the heavily traveled sunset time. And when it does freeze, sand can be spread. Usc of liquid decider, which C-DOT claims has no adverse environmental consequences, reduces use of sand, which does. Sand contributes to the PM-IO air pollution and it also ends up in creeks. Moreove4 every load of sand has 5 percent salt, to prevent freezing of the loads. '-I Variable message boards were erected along I-70 last winter at, for example, Eagle-Vail and Edwards. Those boards inform travelers before they arrive at the blockages that the pass is closed, reducing problems. I Communication about highway conditions has improved. Before, communication was slow and uneven, Now, it's rapid, thanks to broadcast faxes emanating from Denver to local police departments, radio stations, and others who have the means to quickly inform the public. Local responsesI Again this year, check stations at the foot of the passes will be staffed when the chain law is in effect orr Saturdays and Sundays. The Vail Police Department staffed the East Vail check station last year, and will do so again this year. At the approaches to the tunnels, thc staffing is done by C-DOT employees.f Vail fusociates plans to work with the town (a sign code zone change is needed) to get electronic message boards posted at the base portals to the mountain to inform skiers commudnq to Dcnver of the conditions on I. 70, encouraging tlrem t-o linger in town if that would bc berter than adding to hopeless congestion on Vail Pass or at the tunnel. Similar signs would be created at tlic parking structures,- f VA, the Town of Vail, arid C-DOT have resurrected a short-distance recording on an AM band in Vail to advise travelers of road.conditions and requirements. chain-up areas'have been created between \Ail and the pass. One is along the golf course, largely away from homes, Thc other two are at different levels on the pass.' That way, if chains aicn't needed on the lower segments of rhe pass, truckers will not have to damage their chains (and the pavement) on dry pavement before getting to the ice and snow. T\,vo additional chain-up ateas have been also been created between Silvenhome and Eisenhower Thnnel. Colorado State Patrot I Four more state Eoopers wcre added to the staff in the Eagle Valley area this summer. That means when a big storm arrives, there will be more state fioopers out on the highway to give fines to those who ignore the chain law wages and benefits did yield a full staff last winte4, and the resuls were telling to regular drivers of I-70. Roads were sanded and plowed far more regularly This year, staffing is already 100 percent for Vail Pass, and is expected to bc at 100 perccnt at other [-70 segmens by Dec. 1. Altogether, C-DOT spent $7.3 million in keeping I-70 between Vail and Denver opcn last winter, a $1,2 million increase over tle disastrous winter of 1994-95.I Beginning this fall, the highway crews began more liberally spreading liquid deicer. Fall and spring storms are trickier, in many ways, than mid-winter storms, because temperatures are warner, and hence that dangerous icing-