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MINUTES
VAI L PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
FEBRUARY 16, X972
A meeting of the Vail Planning Commission was convened at 9:15 a. m. ,
February l6, i972, i:n the Conference Roam of the Vail Municipal Building.
The following members of the Planning Commission were present:
Robert R. Clark
John A, Dobson
John Donovan
Rodney Slifer, Chairman
Also present were:
Terrell Minger, Town Manager
Larry Rabinsan, Town Attorney
Charles Gersbach, representing the Manor Vail Plan
John Amato, representing the Manor Vail Plan
Duane Nuzum, representing the Pulls property
Warren Pulls
Jay Pulls
~` Chairman Slifer opened the meeting with a discussion of the December 30, 1971,
letter of the Manor Vail Plan group (Antholz property, Leavell-Manor Vail)
regarding proposed zoning changes in the area being considered for annexation.
It was commented by Chairman Slifer that he was concerned that the HS zone
not become an HS strip, a possibility that seemed to be suggested by their
statement that in the future they would like to exchange portions of the area
currently H5 for parcels fronting on the service road , An additional concern
was not to aggravate the traffic problem by the type of access granted . Further
discussion established that, although a public hearing would be held before a
Firm decision was made, we had promised them vehicular access at a place as
yet undetermined , It was the opinion of the Commission members that a weight
limitation on the bridge would be desirable so as to eliminate construction
trucks and buses ,
Mr. Clark remarked that he was concerned about the character of the HDMF
zone in the south of the parcel, According to Chairman Slifer, that is an area
they are restudying; however, the Commission could make a statement to the
effect that they are concerned about this area, especially in matters of parking
and access, Mr. Donovan suggested a height restriction on that area to eliminate
high-rises; Mr, Minger confirmed that anything can be put into an annexation
agreement that the two parties will agree upon. It was Mr. Minger's opinion
that the Commission should obtain control over the design of any bridge coh-
structed. This triggered the larger issue of general architectural control,
a matter which hopefully will be included in the Home Rule Charter. Returning
to the specific issue of the bridge, Chairman Slifer proposed that there be a
separate pedestrian walk-way; that the bridge be one-lane, one-way in orrier not
to encourage heavy traffic. The Commission assented to this proposition for
vehicular access for at least a limited period of time.
The representatives of the-Man~sr Val P~l~ then joined the meeting. Mr.. Amato
informed the Commission that negotiations with Manor Vail had produced agree-
ment that a portion of the land between the two properties would be zpned agri-
cuiturai but not deeded to the city. Chairman Slifer mentioned the concern that
a strip of HS not be created. Mr, Amato stated that their concern in this mat-
ter was to be flexible in the future; however, any changes they would propose
would be subject to approval at that time. He also emphasized that the services
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they proposed to provide would not be primarily off-highway services .
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' Chairman Slifer next indicated that there was some concern about the HDMF
area south of Gore Creek; particularly it is important to avoid too high a
density in the area. Mr. Amato replied that this area would be developed
toward the end of their project and that they were considering one high-rise
building. The response of the Commission was that they were concerned about
continuity of style, a desire that ahigh-rise might not meet. Also, with
Home Rule, there could be more Town control of architecture. Mr. Amato
indicated that they would be favorable to this control in the HDMF area under
discussion; as for the rest of the property, this would have to be discussed
with Mr. Leaven before an answer could be given. However, one considera-
tion when contemplating any annexation was the differential flexibility available
with or without the agreement. In the initial stages of their project, they
would like as high a degree of flexibility as possible. The HDMF area in the
south of the project was closer to Town and would need to display same contin-
uity; however, in the area to the north this consideration was not as strong
and they would like to retain control. it was their intention to retain owner-
ship under alease-hold estate arrangement which would give them a high
degree of control.
In regard to their proposed ice-skating facilities, Mr. Amato indicated these
would not be built until the project was well enough under way to provide cus-
tomers for these facilities, Given that the Town ice--rink is doing very well
this year and also that there might be an ice-rink in the parking structure that
-~- has been proposed, it would be necessary for them to work closely with the
Town in this matter.
The discussion then turned to the proposed bridge across Gore Creek. Chair-
man Slifer summarized the Commission's position as: 1, the design would
be of importance; 2 , assuming the bridge were vehicular, it should be one-
way, one-lane to be converted in the future to pedestrian-only; 3, if vehicular,
there should be a separate pedestrian walk-way; 4. the bridge should be
restricted to automobiles only; no service, delivery, or construction trucks,
The time schedule proposed in the December 30 letter: conversion by the
Town without consent after 5 years; with consent, after 3 years, or at. the
Town's option after 400 units were sold; was agreed to by the Commission.
Mr. Amato reopened the question of atwo--way bridge, stating that there would
not be much traffic in the first one or two years . However, the opinion of the
Commission was that on an l8-fobt bridge this would be a safety hazard, that
the bridge should not be any wider as this would make it difficult to restrict
traffic in the future, and that the intention was to develop a habitual traffic
pattern of one-way, Mr. Amato agreed to the one-way pattern. Chairman
Slifer was of the opinion that the direction would be determined by the devei-
oper in conjunction with the Town Manager and Police Chief. The agreement
was then summarized as the contents of the December 30 letter with the changes
that: 1. there would be a pedestrian lane; 2. it would be only one--way;
3, heavy traffic would be eliminated, although the bridge would be designed
to carry heavier traffic such as fire vehicles, in regard to the reference to
paving in the letter, this would be eliminated as it comes under the subdivision
regulations .
As an aside, it was mentioned that in the franchise discussions with Hoiy
Cross Electric, it had not been specifically determined what their policy
would be toward the burying of electrical lines in newly-annexed areas.
However, with regard to the matter at hand, this would be for the Manor
Vail Plan group to work out with the electric company.
An additional item of interest was that the owner of the 60,000 sq, ft. parcel
next to their property might be willing to come into the Town if he could get
HDMF or PA zoning. There was no immediate adverse reaction; Mr. Amato
said he would convey this to the owner.
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Mr. Gersbach inquired what their next step should be. Formally applying
for annexation and inclusion in the special districts (except General I mprove-
ment District) was the recommendation.
The final matter of business was the one-foot strip along the road and the
five-foot strip along the easement that the Manor Vail Plan does not own.
Mr. Amato was of the hope that Vail Associates would either g~.ve them
easements or convey this property to the Town. However, if they did not,
he would like an understanding with the Town that they would be willing, at
the Manor Vail Plan's expense, to insure access. Mr. Minger agreed to
this but added that he did not think it would be necessary for the Town to
condemn the land .
The second major topic to be considered at this meeting was a proposed
annexation to the Town of property owned by Warren and Jay Pulls east of
the present Town boundaries. Mr. Duane Nuzum gave an explanation of the
proposed zoning maps . Briefly, the area contains approximately 44 acres .
They are proposing 7.5 acres of HDMF and 16.5 acres of MF with a small
recreation area; the rest would be left in open space. He emphasized that
they are not basing their plans on any future possibility of a ski lift in the
area and also that they would consider annexing the land they now lease to
the Town for the golf course at the same time, In terms of access, eventu-
ally they might build another bridge at the east end of the golf course.
Mr. Dobson inquired how many units they were considering. The response
was 400 to 600 units. Chairman Slifer asked what recreational facilities
they were considering . Mr. Nuzum indicated they would probably install
tennis facilities . Mr . Donovan expressed the opinion that there were areas
within the parcel that appeared highly desirable for single-family housing.
Mr. Nuzum responded that they were amenable to some density transfers.
The reason for the small area of HDMF in the eastern portion of the property
was asked . They want to have a restaurant in the area and MF zoning would
not allow this; they propose HDMF in order to obtain the additional uses .
Mr. Minger interjected that the density would be controlled by a FAR number
of .75 to 1, lower than that normally required in HDMF. Jay Pulls emphasized
that they were applying the FAR number only against the area to be developed,
not against the open space.
Mr. Minger stated that he could see no problem in bringing in the golf course
land. Chairman Slifer indicated the Board would consider their presentation
and soon have another meeting to give their comments. A week or two fol-
lowing that, a public hearing will be scheduled. Chairman Slifer mentioned
that one matter that will very likely be brought up in the public hearing will
be the effect on traffic of the project. It was suggested that, by creating a
one-way section on the present road, traffic could be channeled away from
residential areas. Having completed their presentation, the Pulls group
departed .
In their discussion following this presentation, the members of the Commission
suggested: 1. there be more precision in the selection of areas where they
would like HDMF uses; 2. that the densities be lowered as you move eastward;
3. that a request be made for more specific break-downs in terms of units.
The suggestion was made that they go out and look at the site. This will be
done on Thursday, February 24, at 2 p. m.
The final item of business, although not formally before the Commission, was
the possibility that the Bank will desire to build condiminiums in an area cur-
rently zoned PA. This possibility emphasizes the need for a clarification of
the difference between a lodge unit and a condiminium. The Commission was
of the opinion that the interpretation of the ordinance given by Mr. Robinson,
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the Town Attorney, that a hotel room is not an accomodation unit and that
' the ordinance requires the former, is to be accepted and strictly followed.
In the further question as to whether some areas currently zoned PA should
be Changed, the Commission decided to consider it and also solicit the
opinion o~F businesses currently rn the area.
sal b C]Udl~ Abbofit ~o priva~ety
A brief mention was made o~ the propo y y
build a parking facility. The Commission was unanimously against this.
As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at l2 noon.
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MINUTES
VAI L PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
FEBRUARY ~8, i972
A meeting of the Vait Planning Commission was convened at 2:15 p. m. ,
February 28, 1972, in the Conference Room of the Vail Municipal Building.
The following members of the Commission were present:
Jahn A, Dobson
Dave Gorsuch
Robert R , Clark
Also present were:
Terrell Minger, Town Manager
Lawrence Robinson, Town Attorney
Kaiser Marcus
Bob Nott, Vail Associates
Representatives of the Bank of Vail
In the absence of Chairman Slifer, the meeting was called to order by Mr.
Dobson. Both proposals to be considered at this meeting; that of the Bank
to put condominiums above their new building and that of Kaiser Marcus to
build condominiums behind the Bank; would not comply with the current zoning
of the area as PA . There was general agreement that granting a variance
would not be the proper solution to this problem; either the zoning would be
changed or the buildings not allowed. Bab Nott indicated that both groups had
been made aware of the implications of the zoning; however, Vail Associates
had agreed to support their request for a variance. In their opinion, it is a
good site for the Bank. If the Bank is built on the front of the property, the
back portion would not be a good site to support a lodge. Thus, in this view
the proposal by Kaiser Marcus to build condominiums is a logical one. As
a point of information, Mr . Clark asked how a zoning designation is changed .
That the other property owners must be notified is one point to keep in mind ,
Mr. Marcus contributed that 25 to 30 lodge rooms could not be operated
economically; that he was willing to build condominium units of such a design
that the bedrooms could be rented. A point in favor of changing the zoning
for him was the nature of developments around this land; the hospital and the
fire station. Mr. Clark pointed out that the parcel backed up on residential
development. Mr. Dobson recalled that at the last meeting the consensus was
that PA was still the best zoning for the area; also, that it had been decided
that an accomodation unit such as Mr. Marcus planned would not meet the
requirement. It would be too difficult to discover how the unit was actually
being used. Mr. Clark agreed that they would rather change the zoning then
play with the definitions. It was further brought out that there could not be
kitchenettes in lodge rooms; this is one of the characteristics which defines
such a unit .
In regard to his tentative plans if allowed to proceed, Mr..Marcus stated that
there would be 24 to 28 units of 1,100 to 1,200 square feet. The building would
be not over three stories tall. The management would be handled through the
5itzmark. Mr. Dobson inquired whether the contract selling these units would
specify that they had to be rented for a certain period of time. It was felt this
clause would not be legal; however, Mr. Bailey of Slifer & Co. contributed that
their experience has been that most people who own a unit of this type desire
to rent it. It was noted by Mr. Clark that there would be less coverage with
condominium units than a lodge; a factor which would probably satisfy the
-~ adjoining property owners. It was added that Vail Associates had in their con-
' tract restrictions on the density.
The discussion then turned to the plans for the Bank. Mr. Gorsuch asked if
they had planned for expansion. The response was that they would keep the
right of repurchase of the units for Bank use. They also have planned a base-
meet for their use. in the future, adrive-up window might be installed.
They have 34 parking spaces planned and will work out an arrangement with the
Chapel in regard to parking .
Mr. Dobson then summarized that Mr. Marcus was basing his case on the
infeasible economics of building a lodge and the fact that the density would be
lower if condominium units were built. He then asked if there were any other
issues or justifications. Mr. Clark requested that Mr. Marcus submit fairly
complete plans. Mr. Dobson noted that the information from this meeting
would have to be conveyed to their other members . He also requested of
Mr. Nott that Vail Associates not proceed as far in other cases before dealing
with the zoning problem. Mr. Minger indicated that a technical problem would
be that a conditional use permit would need to be obtained from the Board of
Trustees in order to operate a Bank in PA zoning. The Commission agreed
to have another meeting in the near future in order to reach their decision.
As there was no further business, the meeting adjourned at 3:20 p, m.
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MINUTES
JOINT MEETING ~ -
BOARD 4F TRUSTEES QF THE TQWN QF VAi L ~ '
AND THE VAIL PLANNING COMMISSION ~ '~ `",I~ ,
MARCH l3, 1972 ,
A joint meeting of the Board of Trustees of the Town of Vaii. and the Vail ;-
Planning Commission was convened at 2:15 p, m. , March l3, 197'2, in the ' '
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Conference Room of the Vail Municipal Building. .
Mayor J ohn A . Dobson and the following members of the Boar. d of Trustees , .
were present:
Richard Bailey ~ ~ ~ ~.
John Donovan '
Dr . Thomas I . Steinberg ,
Gerry White
Chairman Rod Slifer and the following members of the Planning Commission:.,:' .~ y
were present: .'~ ~ ~ .
John A . Dobson ~ ~ '
John Donovan
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Also present was:
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~~ Larry Robinson, Town Attorney ~ ~ ;
! A discussion was held regarding the proposed, re-zoning of Lots G . H_ , and I-,~:; < ' .
,~ second filing, Vai1~/;l.lar~. The Planning and Zoning Commission recommends.
that the zoning be changed from PA to MF. This would allow~a density of ; '~ .
.75 ~o 1. It would require that the Bank apply for a conditional use permit, ,
since banking is not a use by right.
Public notice will be given as soon as possible and the matter will ;be br..ought '
up fc~r Board of Trustees approval as soon as possible. .
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As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:15 p, m':,
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MINUTEs
VAI L PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MARCH 21 , 1972
A meeting of the Vail Planning Commission was convened at 1 1 :10 a. m. ,
March 21 , 1972, in the Town Manager's Office .
The following members of the Planning Commission were present;
Robert R . Clark
Jahn Donovan
John Dobson
Also present were:
Terrell Minger, Town Manager
Representatives of the Pulls Property
It was pointed out by the representatives of the Pulls Property that they
have eliminated from their proposal one extreme western area of HDMF
and decreased the size of the HDMF area in the east. They wanted the
reaction of the Commission to a possible convention center in the remain-
ing western HDMF area, If built, it wou~.d be done next year. The
density would not exceed that normally allowed in HDMF zoning; 1 to 1 .
After same discuss~.on of the d~.fferent precedents set if the FAR number
is originally 1 to 1 or . 75 and perhaps later raised to 1 to 1 , it was
decided to annex the area, if approved, with an, original 1 to 1 ratio in
the western HDMF area with a contracturai .75 to 1 in. the eastern HDMF
area.
Further discussions brought out the points that: 1 . the possible conven-
tion center proposal would be planned for 300 to 700 people; 2. the
proposed one-way road at the western erad of the parcel will be presented
at the Board of Trustees meeting on March 2l; 3. an agricultural area
will be dedicated to the Town; 4. the area of the golf course owned by
the Pulls interest will be annexed at the same time; 5. they will ask
for a road to be abandoned and the Town paving project halted; 6. there
may possibly be some land trades in the future to provide parking for the
golf course .
As there was no further business, the muting adjourned at 1'#:40 a. m.
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MINUTES
JOINT MEETING
VAI L PL~,NNING COMMISSION AND
BOARD OF' TRUSTEES FOR THE TOWN OF VAIL
APRIL 13, 1972
A joint meeting of the Planning Commission and Board of Trustees was
convened at 2:10 p. m. , April 13, 1972, in the Conference Room of the
Vail Municipal Building.
Chairman Rod Slifer and the following members of the Planning Commission
were present:
Robert Clark
John Dobson,
John Donovan
Dave Gorsuch
Mayor John A . Dobson and the following Trustees ware present:
John Donovan
Joseph Lang maid
C. E . Ted Kindel
Josef Staufer
Gerry White
Terrell J. Minger, Town Manager, was also present.
Chairman Slifer indicated that the first order of business was a presentation
of the Vaii Associates' plan for annexation and zoning of the Booth Creek area.
Mr. Nott of Vail Associates clarified that this property can only be annexed
after the area known as the 11th Filing is annexed. Their preliminary plan
is to request that the area be zoned single-family residential and multi--family
with a FAR not to exceed .4 to 1 . Several maps which had been prepared were
explained to the Commission and Board. Some of the points of information
were: 1 . the 57 single-family sites will be 1/3 to 1/2 acre; 2, the 160
multiple units will range from a 45-unit facility to a 20-unit facility; 3. the
multiple units are viewed as being, in part, apartment buildings that will
hopefully provide employee housing; VA would be willing to commit themselves
to this formally; 4. they are trying to place the buildings in such a way that
the meadow area will be open; 5, stables and riding facilities will be provided
and the present stable area relocated; 6. the stable would probably be offered
to someone an a fang-term lease who would build the facility and pay no rent
until his capital costs were recovered; 7. Vail Associates would build the
tennis courts for public use and possibily offer them to the Town at a later
date; 8. restrictive covenants would be used to maintain architectural con-
trol; 9. exterior materials permissable would be limited; iQ. the natural
setting would be required to be preserved as far as possible with regard to
trees, rock outcroppings, etc.
In the matter of what, if any, open space would be dedicated to the Town,
Mr. Nott indicated that the tract along Booth Creek would be dedicated, the
steep portions could be dedicated; Vail Associates would retain control of
the meadow by the stable location but the disposition of the other meadows
was not yet decided . Mayor Dobson noted that before the Town could accept
a dedication of land it was necessary to be able to foresee a public use for
the area, a policy of accepting land only in order to save taxes for the owner
would not be desirable. Mention was also made that VA might dedicate the
stream tract in the 11th Filing while retaining tracts D and F,
Chairman 5iifer summarized that the general agreement seemed to be that
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the plan as a whole was very good. The one area that might need re~-study
is the MF zone on the western end of the property and the traffic problem
it might generate. It was emphasized that all plans would need approval
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of the Fire Chief, for example, before they could be effected : The Board
requested they be given a copy of the plat and zoning maps. The next step
for VA is to begin to submit the formal papers for annexation; at this point,
the only action the Planning Commission could take would be to give them
a letter stating that they approve of the plan in a preliminary form.
The next item on the agenda was the request for rezoning of lots G, H, I,
Vail Village, Second Filing. Mr. Minger stated that after numerous dis-
cussions, he and the Town Attorney would prefer that the area remain PA,
the Bank be given a variance for their condominiums, and Mr. Marcus be
assured that the interpi^~t~tipn cif F'A zc~n~n~ wau~~i attr~w a "man~~es~ ~on~A-
f'i~i~~iiuri"~s ij T h~ r~~asr~n fay this change of opinion was that such a decision
would avoid the difficulties in terms of precedent that a change to HDMF
would create. Mr. White disagreed with this rationale, stating that a
precedent would still be set of allowing the use, which eventually meant
the same thing. Further discussion emphasized that the defining char-
~~t~ri~t~ w~~ u~~ r~.th~r thin ewn~r~hip end t~~t t~~ ®r~g~n~l intent ~,ad
been lodge usage. Mayor Dobson phrased the question at this time as one
of whether this usage with its high densities was still the usage desired.
In his opinion, it is not. He granted that there is no means available to
the Town to insure that a "managed condominium" remains a hotel in use.
Some further discussion issued as to the precedent-setting implications of
a change to HDMF. Mr. Minger was asked why he felt he could justify a
change to MF instead . The response was that in such acase atrade-off
was apparent; the community would gain a lower density for the change
in zoning .
Mr. Morcus indicated that a density allowable of .75 to 1 would eliminate
his project. One alternative he saw as open to him would be to go to court
over the interpretation of PA zoning. Trustee Donovan suggested they
get the opinion of a legal expert on zoning . Trustee Kindel added that it
would still be necessary to decide what was desired and insure- that the
ordinance reflected this desire. It had been suggested that a variance
be granted to the Bank; however, it was pointed out that this would be
a variance for condominiums; thus, Mr. Morcus could then ask for the
same variance. It was objected that this need not necessarily occur as
the Bank could be required to hold the density below that allowable in MF.
Further discussion revealed that although there was disagreement as to
what the major problem was in the particular case at hand, there was
general agreement that the precedent-setting character of any action was
a major concern. Mr. Minger phrased the needed action as he saw it as:
. 1 . the need to decide what the ordinance should say; 2 , the need to find
out through expert legal opinion what it does say; and 3. the reconciliation
of ~E . and 2. This process could be completed in approximately 10 days
with concerted effort. Mayor Dobson emphasized that in ail discussion it
must be remembered that the problems of the Bank and Mr. Morcus are
different; the Bank will not have "managed condominiums." Mr. Gorsuch
moved that we retain an expert and get a legal interpretation; Mr. Clark
seconded this motien. Before a vote was taken, a representative of the
Bank explained that they had considered commercial space above the Bank
rather than condominiums; however, as a practical matter rather than a
legal one, there would not be enough parking spaces, The vote on the
previous motion was unanimous.
Returning to the particular problem at hand, Mr. Minger stated that a
reason would be needed for a change in the zoning and economic reasons
were not sufficient. Mr. Morcus inquired what the reaction would be if
he requested a change to MF zoning. Trustee White responded that that
would put the area more in line with its surroundings, Mr. Morcus
~; suggested he could lease land from the Bank to figure into the FAR .
Mayor Dobson stated that this had been done once before and he would
never favor such an action. At this juncture both the representatives
of the Bank and Mr. Morcus, having completed their presentations., left
the meeting .
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Trustee White stated his opinion that if tl-~e Commission were to change ,
the zoning to HDMF, the PA zone might as well be eliminated. Trustee
Kindel suggested that the PA and HDMF zones be combined with the
addition of a requirement for public recreation facilities and a Lobby
area. Chairman Slifer stated his opinion that HDMF is too permissive
a zone as are some aspects of PA such as the allowance far ofFice space.
He could agree with combining the two zones and allowing MF to became
the zone for apartments . Trustee White, referring the problem back
to the question of original intent, indicated that his understanding was that
they were trying to generate higher occupancy which could support shops
and restaurants. Condominiums would not generate this business and
hence Vail would be a more sterile resort. Trustee Staufer agreed with
this position that the condominium renter spends less money in the Town
than the person who rents only a room. Mayor Dobson disagreed to the
extent that the question for him is whether we are dense enough already.
In addition, he thought it an interesting point that at present lodgings are
built without amenities; a requirement for these facilities might contribute
noticeably to the Town, Mr. Minger summarized that the proposal thus.
far was to combine PA and HDMF, taking the best of each and adding the
requirement of recreational amenities . Tn terms of the specific problem
at hand, a solution was suggested that the area in which the Bank will be
constructed be re-zoned MF, with a recommendation for granting a condi-
tional use permit to accommodate the Bank usage. The area in which
Mr. Morcus proposes to build will be left f?A and it was the Planning Com-
mission's and Board of Trustee's opinion that the project as presented by
Mr. Morcus was permissible under the present PA zone.
Additional business at this meeting included: 1 , that some move should
be made to try to lessen the density on the VA property next to Manor Vail
that is currently HDMF; 2. that the height of buildings should be controlled
by the FAR, if buildings are becoming too tall, perhaps the FAR is too high;
3, that a small meeting room in a lodge to serve guests of that lodge should
be exempted from the per-seat parking requirement; 4. that there has been
no final decision on the parking structure, the money allocated was for pre-
liminary studies; 5. that at a future meeting a decision must be reached on
the Hoiy Crass Electric franchise proposal; 6. that an information session
for the benefit of new members will be held in the near future.
As there was na further business, the meeting adjourned at 5:00 p, m.
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MINUTES
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING
TOWN COUNCIL OF THE TOWN OF VAI L
AND THE VAIL PLANNING COMMISSION
SEPTEMBER 15, 1972
A special joint meeting of the Town Council of the Town of Vail and the
Vail Planning Commission was convened at 10:30 a . m. , September 15,
1972, in the ConFerence Room of the Vail Municipal Building:
Mayor John Dobson and the following councilmen were present:
Richard Bailey
John Donovan
Joseph Lang maid
Tom Steinberg
Chairman Bob Clark and the Following members of the Planning Commission
were present:
Dave Gorsuch
Jim Slevin
Terrell J . Minger, Town Manager, vvas also present.
The Mayor explained that the development plan for the Pulls property had
been changed and that representatives of the planning group were present
to explain the changes. A member of this group began his presentation
with the statement that the reduction of densities would afFect adversly the
amount and quality of amenities that they could build. In the new plan the
HDMF zones had been consolidated into one area with an F.A.R. of .75 to
1; the MF zone would have an F.A.R. of .5 to 1. A drawing of the recrea-
tional Facilities they propose was explained. In regard to the proposed
amphitheater, it had not yet been determined who-would own the facility;
the parking would be under the mall with additional parking gained through
trade-oFFs with facilities that were not in use at the same time. Although
the proposed pool areas would not be private and Far the use of only one
building, it has not yet been determined whether they would supplement
other Facilities available in town. Trustee Donovan questioned whether
they had reduced densities by including part of the land that formerly was
• dedicated to the town in their calculations; the answer was afFirmative, 3
acres had been included. The population to be generated was estimated at
3000 in a little under 800 housing units. Mr. Minger noted that although
the group was considering taking some of the green belt, they were building
amenities on this land. This could be valuable if an agreement were made
that such amenities must be built. A representative of the group noted that
commercial development would be of a type to support the area itself; shops,
a restaurant, deli, etc. Another member of the group interjected that the
actual density would be lower than it appears because pools, etc. , are
included in the F.A.R. The convention Facility they are contemplating would
accommodate 700 to 300 people; it would probably be handled by the hotel
Firm located in the area. The amphitheater would be For the summer only;
an open-air Facility.
Councilman Bailey stated that he would Find it necessary to abstain From any
vote or discussions on this particular matter as Slifer and Company are
agents For Vail Valley, Inc.
Mayor Dobson noted that the public hearing had been re-scheduled for October
17. As there were no further questions, at this juncture the planning group
[eft the meeting. Mr. Minger gave his view that it was a very good idea to
trade the open space for amenities built by the developer rather than the town.
Mr. Slevin suggested that an attempt be made to lower the density by 1/3
while keeping these amenities. Mayor Dobson concurred that the town cannot
•
r indefinitely provide amenities for developments. Councilman Donovan
disagreed; he thought the expense of the amenities to the town would be
worth it if the density cou ld be lowered by 1500 or 1000 people . Mr .
Minger noted that as the property is now zoned, the same density as
proposed in the new plan is allowable, while the amenities have not been
_ provided. Councilman Steinberg noted that 3000 beds would probably
exceed the number of additional skier beds needed. Mr. Clark noted
that the developer would need amenities to sell his project. He suggested
that they be allowed to keep portions of the areas zoned "A," but that these
areas remain "A" zoned, allowing the building of amnities only. Council-
man Langmaid suggested that money be required in an escrow account that
would guarantee the building of these facilities. Mr. Sievin reiterated that
he thought it would be financially possible for the developer to reduce the
densities and still build the amenities . Mayor Dobson, suggested that when
a definitive maximum were set For skier capacity, much of the reduction
of planned density would occur automatically. Mr. Minger noted that a
first step might be for Vail Associates to present their Mountain Master
Plan to the group. Also, it might be appropriate to comment to the Forest
_ Service on the desires of the town a*s related to developments on the mountain.
Ernst Lanese had submitted a plan for parking at the Cornice Building,
Problems existed in that the cars would have to back onto Gore Creek Drive
and also he did not have the required aisle width. Councilman Steinberg
suggested that to avoid the danger of backing, he be encouraged to have
fewer spaces and have apull-through driveway. Mr. Minger suggested
that this be considered at the meeting on Tuesday night. Additional items
brought forward included: 1 . a check should be made that all restaurants
have their air vents elevated; 2. the rule that all parking lots be paved
should be more strictly enforced; 3. Four new planning commission members
need to be appointed; 4. a problem with speeding exists on Beaver Dam Road
which the police should undertake to handle; 5. members of the Council
might be interested in protesting to the County Planning Commission the
approval of a KOA campground near Dowd Junction with many safety and
other hazards . Mr . Minger noted that by law the town is entitled to com-
ment on any proposed subdivision within two miles of the town boundaries.
The administrative staff has set up a procedure for the review of all plats .
There was general agreement that these reviews should be conducted and
letters sent with the findings to the County Planning Comrr~ission. Perhaps
proposals outside the two-mile radius could also be reviewed. Mr. Lamont
added the point of Enformation that the state now enforces the UniForm Build-
ing Code and issues building permits.
Mr. Clark suggested that a meeting be held with the variance board, especially
to discuss fihe set-back variances that were granted in Lionshead. Mr. Minger
noted that he has instructed the new building inspector not to take a matter to
this board unless a real hardship, other than financial, exists. A request
for an F.A.R. variance had been received for the Williams residence. Mayor
Dobson noted that the bulk is already in existence in the form of a garage and
that parking is available elsewhere. A decision on this matter can be reached
at the Tuesday meeting. Additional points of inFormation included that: 1 .
work has begun on the budget For next year; currently each department is
formulating goals; 2 , a letter has been sent to the owners of the Anthalz
property stating that the town is interested in purchasing the entire parcel;
also, two MAI appraisers have been hired to appraise 'the property who will
report in about 45 days .
As there was no further business, the meeting adjourned at 12:20 p. m.
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MINUTES
WORK SESSION
TOWN COUNCI L OF THE TOWN OF VAI L
AND THE VAIL PLANNING COMMISSION
SEPTEMBER 29, 1972
A work session of the Tawn Council and Planning Commission of the Town
of Vail was convened at 2:10 p, m. , September 29, '1972, in the Conference
Room of the Vail Municipal Building.
Mayor John A. Dobson and the following councilmen were present:
Richard Bailey
Tom Steinberg
Joseph 1.,.:angmaid
Gerry White
Chairman Robert Clark and James Slevin of the Planning Commission were
present .
Also present were:
Terrell Minger, Town Manager
Stanley Bernstein, Finance Director
Kent Rose, Town Engineer
There was some discussion of the passibility of obtaining a Ginkelvan. More
specific discussions of cost, timing, etc. will be held later.
Mr. Robert Royston, an architect, was present for the work session. IF his
firm were selected to do a master plan, he would utilize the services of a
specialized planning Firm. After presenting his impressions of Vail, Mr.
Royston responded to c{uestians From the group. He acknowledged that bike-
ways along the stream might not be possible in the central and core areas of
the village. Mayor Dobson noted that even a narrow footpath would be desir-
able. Mr. Royston suggested that, at least, trees could be planted in such a
way as 'to make the main entrance to Vail more attractive, In regard to the
proposition that areas be set aside for automobiles, it was asked how such
limits could be enForced. Mr. Royston was of the opinion that it would be
mare diFFicult to convince the residents to use these areas than the visitor;
the latter could be attracted to them by proper advertising. Also in regard
to parking, Mr. Royston Felt that the present main parking lot would be the
logical place for a structure; in addition, that a trafFic study might reveal
currently unperceived possibilities. A discussion of bicycle paths brought
out that the possible cost might be approximately $8,000 per mile.
Mr. Minger stated that his goal was to master plan the entire town in terms
of services, facilities, etc.; to discover what is desired, how much it will
cost, what new ordinances and provisions are needed, what new sources of
revenue such as a condominium tax or an additional one cent sales tax might
be needed. Councilman White noted that he would like to see the town com-
mitted to some projects this Fall; bicycle and pedestrian paths, tree plantings,
etc. Mr. Royston noted that it would be Feasible to expect a completed plan
within approximately 6 months aFter a decision has been made. Councilman
White stated that he felt public work sessions should be held to discover what
was desired in the plan. It was suggested that a presentation should be made
to structure the meetings, but that care should be taken in the type of presen-
l:~~tion given, i-here was general agreement that the development of a master
plan should be undertaken. There was discussion of the desirability and
Feasibility of an increased sales tax; also of the possibility of obtaining monies
and trees For replanting from the Highway Department.
Mr. Royston noted that the cost to the Town, if his Firm were hired far the
job, would be reduced if a sharing arrangement could be worked out with the
County. However, it was agreed that this might unduly delay the project.
I F this sharing were not contemplated , the cost could run between $25, 000
~ and $50,000 to produce a goad preliminary master plan. Typographical
information, aerial photographs, as-built plans, etc, will be needed From
the Town. Mr. Royston would also be working on the zoning ordinance in
conjunction with the development of this plan. He will present a F'orrnal pro-
posal within the next month.
As there was no Further discussion, the meeting adjourned at 4;30 p. m.
A
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MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
TOWN COUNCIL OF THE TOWN OF VAI L
OCTOBER 17, 1972
F the Town of Vail was convened at
A regular meeting of the Town Council o
7:45 p. m. , October 17, 1972, in the Council Room of the Vail MunicipaE
Building:
Mayor'John A. Dobson and the following Councilmen were present:
Richard Bailey
John Donovan
Joseph Langmaid
JaseF Staufer
Tom Steinberg
Also present were:
T-errell M.inger, Town Manager
Lawrence Robinson, Town Attorney
The first item to be discussed' was a summer soccer camp proposed for
Vail next summer. Mr. Wachter conducted a camp in Summit County
last year with an enrollment qF 120 boys From ages 8 to 19. if the camp
were held in Vail, he would make his own arrangements Far lodging. and
Food service. Last year the charges were $85 per week, unless the boy
lived in the area, in which case it was $25. Mayor Dobson noted that the
main question of the Council was what fee should be charged For the use
of the Field. Mr. Wachter noted that last year his proFit came to $1 .58
per boy. The hours of use of the Field were from 9:00 a.m. to 1i:15~a.m.;
From 2:15 p. m. to 4:30 p. m. and from 6:45 p. m, to 8:30 p, m. The charge
For the field the previous year had totaled approximately $50.00 a week.
He would like to conduct the camp in late July or early August. Councilman
Langmaid noted that night use of the Field might not be possible; however,
Mr. Wachter Felt the hours were flexible. Mr. Penwill contributed that he
thought the Vail soccer program could be worked around the other use of
the Field. Councilman Donovan moved that the camp be allowed to use the
fie id For $50 per week, not to exceed $150; Councilman Bailey seconded;
Councilman StauFer abstained; Councilmen Bailey, Donovan, Langmaid,
Steinberg and Dobson were in Favar . Mr . Minger wi t l meet with Mr . Wachter
to work out the details of the arrangement.
Ordinance No. 13, AN ORDINANCE AUTHCi~IZING THE TOWN OF VAIL TO
LEASE CERTAIN PRIVATE PROPERTY WITHIN THE TOWN OF VAI L TO
B~ USED AS A ML,JNICIPAL PARKING FACILITY; DETERMINING THAT
SACD REAL PROPERTY SHOULD BE EXEMI~T FROM ALL AD VALOREM
REAL PROPERTY TAXES; AND SETTING FORTH MATTERS AND DETAILS
I N RELATION THERETO, was introduced on second reading . As there were
na questions or objections, Councilman Donovan moved Ordinance No. 13 be
adopted; Councilman Steinberg seconded; approval was unanimous.
Ordinance No. 14, AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 6 {Series
of 1971) REFERRING TO THE UNIFORM BUILDING CODE, 1970 EDITION,
DELETING PORTIONS OF' SAID UNIFORM BUILDING CODE AND MAKING
~ADDIT[O~!S T[-HERETO; AND SETTING FORTH DETAILS IN RI=CATION TO
THE FOREGOING ,. was introduced on second reading. Mr. Robinson noted
that, in addetian to the amendments already proposed, the First line and First
2 words in Section 2 should be deleted. Councilman Bailey moved the
amended ordinance be adopted; Councilman Donovan seconded; passage was
unanimous .
Ordinance No. 15, AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING MUNICIPAL BORROWING
OF MONEY IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $75,000.00 TO SUPPLEMENT
THE GENERAL REVENUES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 1972; AUTHORIZING
~,t ~.
THE MAYOR AND TOWN MANAGER TO EXECUTE SHORT TERM NOTES
TO EVIDENCE SUCH INDEBTEDNESS FOR MUNICIPAL PURPOSES; AND
SETTING FORTH MATTERS AND DETAILS I N RELATION THERETO, was
introduced on second reading. As there were no questions or objections,
Councilman Steinberg moved the ordinance be adopted; Councilman Bailey
seconded; approval was unanimous.
Next on tk~e agenda was a request for a parking variance. Far the Cornice y
Building. Mr. McLaughlin, representing Ernst Larese, noted that they
were ,~F the opinion that the change in character to a restaurant ope ration
would lessen the burden currently placed on the main parking lot. Mayor
Dobsan indicated that the Council would like the police chieF to look at the
proposal; there was still concern that people would back onto the main
thoroughfare, as only one car could pass through the d~^iveway at a time.
When this traffic report has been received, a decision wilt be made.
The list of applicants For the Four vacancies on the Planning Commission was
read. Each Councilman indicated 'the four members he would prefer and sub-
mitted these names to the Mayor for tallying . The Mayor Hated that this
procedure is the simplest one; however, he was sure that each Councilman
would be willing to reveal how he voted, if requested. The first ballot
resulted in a tie between Mr. Weibel and Mr. Pierce; an the second ballot,,
Mr. Pierce received the higher vote. Councilman Donavan moved that
Mr. Pierce, Mr. Lapin, Mr. Wright and Mr. Sage be appointed to the
Planning Commission effective immediately; Councilman Bailey seconded;
approval was unanimous .
A resolution opposing the passage of proposed Constitutional amendments
7 and 12 was next presented. Mr. Minger explained that each of these
amendments, the Dean amendment and the Common Cause amendment,
dealt with the praperty.tax. Both of them put a limit of 50 mills on the
tax; of this amount 37.5 mills would be allocated among the county, muni-
cipalities and special districts. The Formula for this allocation is Hat stipu-
lated. Also, because these are proposed as provisions of the Constitution
rather than statutes, they would be very difficult to change if Found unwark-
abie. Another objection was that they take the control from the local govern-
ments and put it in the hands of the state. The arguments in Favor of the
proposals ail center on the fact that the property tax is mis-used . AFter
further discussion, Councilman Lang maid moved the resolution be adopted;
Councilman Donovan seconded; adoption was unanimous. The resolution will
be published.
le have alread indicated their interest in
Mr. Minger noted that 52 peop y
reserving a parking space in the main lot for the winter. This brings up
the issue of the parking policy for the winter. The administrative staFF has
considered the possibility of charging For any use of this area; the rationale
is 'not to use it as a revenue source , but rather to Force the most productive
use aF this heavy_demand, close-in space. Otherwise, people will leave
their car as long as four or Five days. Further discussion brought out the
viewpoints that: 1 , such a move might benefit the businesses in Lionshead
to the detriment of the core-area businesses; ~. the lot is too much used
for employee, rather than guest, parking; 3. free parking up to 2 hours
should be provided for those who are shopping; 4. rental cars should be
handled by the rental companies oFF the main parking lot; 5. YM plates
should be parked in a separate lot and banned From the main lot on week-
ends, etc.; F. employees should be required to park on the Antholz property
with good shuttle-bus service provided; 7, neither customers nor skiers
should be charged for parking; 8. there is not enough parking available to
accommodate all skiers. Mayor Dobsan suggested that at the next meeting
.~ the discussion begin with an outline of exactly what spaces are available
and where, Followed by a comparison of what has been previously available,
what is needed, and what the possibilities are of providing shuttle services.
The meting will be publicized as For this purpose. Mr. Robinson was asked
to study the question of whether it is legal to use town revenues to maintain
the parking lot and, at the same time, charge a Few people For a reserved
space .
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Ms. Susie Brenden had attended the meeting in order to request the use of
the council room for apre-school class. The class would be open to local
children only, not to exceed 12 children. The charge Far 56 hours a month
!would be $50. Councilman Donovan suggested that, as the number in the
group was limited, those who had net been admitted might complain to the
town, as the council room is a public facility. Councilman StauFer expressed
his opinion that= there exists a civic duty to~help fulFill so apparent a need.
Ms. C~renden noted that if she had the use of a room as large as the counci 1-
room she might be able to hire more staFf and accommodate more children.
The Recreation District had denied her request for the use of the golf club-
house. Mayor Dobson emphasized that his major qualm was the precedent
set by the use of a public facility For a private purpose. Mr. Lapin suggested
that perhaps the town should administer the program.. Ms, Brenden noted
that the use of convention rooms in lodges was not possible because they are
not available For 7 hours; she Felt the program should extend over this long a
period to make it a more useable time for the mothers. Mr. Minger agreed
that the privateness of the venture makes the use of the council room inap-
propriate; also, the other uses of the building make the conduct of a pre--
school inappropriate in the same quarters. Gouncilrnan StauFer suggested
that the Recreation District Board be re-approached an the use of their
facility. Mayor bobson summarized that: 1 , the Council is sympathetic ,
to the need; 2, the undertaking should be approached on as public a basis
- as possible iF the municipality is to be involved; 3 , the Recreation District
will be approached; 4, Mr, Minger and Ms, Brenden should discuss the
extent of municipal involvement,
As an informational point, Mr. Minger noted that the County is very close to
hiring a planner. The minutes of the meetings of September 29, October 3,
October 6 and October 12, as corrected, had been previously submitted to
the Council. Councilman Donovan moved they be approved, Counc.slman
StauFer seconded; approval was unanimous, A final item brought beFore
the Council was the recent rash of house break-ins in the fawn. Mr. Minger
noted that the police department is aware of this and taking steps to prevent
further difficulties. As there was no further business, Councilman Donovan
moved the Town Council adjourn at 9:45 p. m.
The meeting convened as the Local Liquor Licensing Authority at 9:45 p. m,
~Mr. Robinson Hated that the hearing on the application of Bridgewater lnn,
Inc. had been conducted tvu~ weeks ago and that it is necessary to reach a
decision. It was stated that the facility has na difficulty in meeting parking
requirements. Councilman Bailey moved the license be approved; Council-
rr~n Steinberg seconded; Councilmen Donovan and StauFer abstained; Council-
men Bailey, Lang maid, Steinberg and Dobson were in favor.
As there was no Further business, Councilman Langmaid moved the Local
Liquor Licensing Authority be adjourned; Councilman Steinberg seconded;
adjournment was at 9:50 p, m.
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MINUTES
S PECIA ~,. MEETING
'" PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE TOWN OF VAIL
~~ OCTOBER 24, 1972
A meeting of the Planning Commission of the Town of Vail was convened
a't 3:00 p. m. , Tuesday, October 24, 1972, in the Conference Room of the
Vail Municipal Building.
Chairman Robert Clark and the Following members were present;.
Dave Gorsuch
Merv Lapin
Gordon Pierce
Dave Sage
Jim Slevin
Jen Wright
Also present were:
Terrell Minger, Town Manager
Kent Rose, Town Engineer
John Dobson, Mayor
The Planning Commission met 'to review and discuss 'the proposed platting
of Vail Village 13th Filing.
A presentation was made by Bob Nott and Jim Veile on behaiF of Vail Associates.
The discussion was concerned with the Following points:
1 . Street location
2. Zoning Designations
3 . Housing types
4. Architectural control
5. Agricultural pones and uses permitted within such pones
6. Landscaping considerations
7. Recreational amenities
8. Dedicated tracts
9. Vehicular access
10. Covenants.
It is the Planning Commission's recommendation to the Town Council that 'the
plat of Vail Village 13th Filing be approved, subject to Council review:
Secr are" ..
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