HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-04-13 Town Council MinutesMINUTES ,
JOINT MEETING
VAI L PLANNING COMMISSION AND
BOARD OF TRUSTEES FOR THE TOWN OF VAIL
APRI L 13, 1972
A joint meeting of the Planning Commission and Board of Trustees Was
convened at 2:10 p. m. , April 13, 1972, in the Conference Room of the
Vail Municipal Building.
Chairman Rod Slifer and the following members of the Planning Commission
were present:
Robert Clark
John Dobson
John Donovan
Dave Gorsuch
Mayor John A. Dobson and the following Trustees were present:
John Donovan
Joseph Langmaid
C.E. Ted Kindel,
Josef Staufer
Gerry White
Terrell J. Minger, Town Manager, was also present
Chairman Slifer indicated that the first order of business was a presentation
of the Vail Associates' plan for annexation and zoning of the Booth Creek area. .
Mr. Nott of Vail Associates clarified that this property can only be annexed
after the area known as the 11th Filing is annexed. Their preliminary plan
is to request that the area be zoned single-family residential and multi -family
with a FAR not to exceed .4 to 1. Several maps which had been prepared were
explained to the Commission and Board. Some of the points of information
were; 1. the 57 single-family sites will be 1/3 to 1/2 acre; 2. the 160
multiple units will range from a 45-unit facility to a 20-unit facility; 3. the
multiple units are viewed as being, in .part, apartment buildings that will
hopefully provide employee housing; VA would be willing to commit themselves
to this formally; 4. they are trying to place the buildings in such a way that
the meadow area will be open; 5. stables and riding facilities will be provided
and the present stable area relocated; 6. the stable would probably be offered
to someone on a long-term lease who would build the facility and pay no rent
until his capital costs were recovered; 7. Vail Associates would build the
tennis courts for public use and possibi.ly offer them to the Town at a later
date; 8. restrictive covenants would be used to maintain architectural con-
trol; 9. exterior materials permissable would be limited; 10. the natural
setting would be required to be preserved as far as possible with regard to
trees, rock outcroppings, etc.
In the matter of what, if any, open space would be dedicated to the Town,
Mr. Nott indicated that the tract along Booth Creek would be dedicated, the
steep portions could be dedicated; Vail Associates, would retain control of
the meadow by the stable location but the disposi:tibn •of the,other meadows
was not yet decided. Mayor Dobson noted that before the' Town could accept .
a dedication of land it was necessary to be able to foresee a public use for
the area, a policy of accepting land ohly in order to save taxes for.the owner
would not be desirable. Mention was also made that VA might dedicate the
stream tract in the 11th Filing while -retaining tracts.D and F.
Chairman Slifer summarized that the general agreement seemed to be that
the plan as a whole was very good. The one area that might need re -study
is the MF zone on the western end of the property and the traffic problem
it might generate. It was emphasized that all plans would, need approval
f ♦ t
of the Fire Chief, for example, before they could be effected. The Board.
requested they be given a copy of the plat and zoning maps. The next step
for VA is to begin to submit the formal papers for annexation; at. this point,.
the only action the Planning Commission could take would be to give them,
a letter stating that they approve of the plan in a preliminary form.
The next item on the agenda was the request -for rezoning of lots G, H, 1,
Vail Village, Second Filing. Mr. Minger stated that after numerous dip
cussions, he and the Town Attorney would prefer that the area remain PA,
the Bank be given a variance for their condominiums, and Mr. Marcus be
assured that the interpretation of PA zoning would allow a "managed condo-
minium." The reason for this change of opinion was that such a decision
would avoid the difficulties in terms of precedent that a change to HDMF
would create. Mr. White disagreed with this rationale, stating that a
precedent would still be set of allowing the use, which eventually meant
the same thing. Further discussion emphasized that the defining char-
acteristic was use rather than ownership and that the original intent had
been lodge usage. Mayor Dobson phrased the question at this time as one
of whether this usage with its high densities was still the usage desired.
In his opinion, it is not. He granted that there is no means available to
the Town to insure that a "managed condominium" remains a hotel in use.
Some further discussion insued as to the precedent -setting implications of
a change to HDMF. Mr. Minger was asked why he felt he could justify, a
change to MF instead. The response was that in such a case a trade-off
was apparent; the community would gain a lower density for the change
in zoning.
Mr. Morcus indicated that a density allowable of .75 to 1 would eliminate
his project. One alternative he saw as open to him would be to go to court
over the interpretation of PA zoning. Trustee Donovan suggested they
get the opinion of a legal expert on zoning. Trustee Kindel added that it
would still be necessary to decide what was desired and insure that the
ordinance reflected this desire. It had been suggested that a variance
be granted to the Bank; however, it was pointed out that this would be
a variance for condominiums; thus, Mr. Morcus could then ask for the:
same variance. It was objected that this, need not necessarily" occur as
the Bank could be required to hold the density below that allowable in MF..
Further discussion revealed that although there was disagreement as to
what the major problem was in the particular case at hand, there was
general agreement that the precedent -setting character of any action was
a major concern, Mr. Minger phrased the needed action as he saw it as;
1. the need to decide what the ordinance should say; 2. the need to find
out through expert legal opinion what it does say; and 3. the reconciliation
of 1. and 2. This process could be completed in approximately .1 O days
with concerted effort. Mayor Dobson emphasized that in all discussion it
must be remembered that the problems of the Bank and Mr.. Morcus are
different; the Bank will not have "managed condominiums." Mr. Gorsuch
moved that we retain an expert and get a legal interpretation; Mr. Clark
seconded this motion. Before a vote was taken, a representative of the
Bank explained that they had considered commercial space above the Bank
rather than condominiums; however, as a practical matter rather than a
legal one, there would not be enough parking spaces. The vote on the
previous motion was unanimous.
Returning to the particular problem at hand, Mr. Minger stated that a
reason would be needed for a change in the zoning and economic reasons
were not sufficient. Mr. Morcus inquired what the reaction would be if
he requested a change to MF zoning. Trustee White responded that that
would put the area more in line with its 'surroundings. Mr. Morcus
suggested he could lease land from the Bank to figure into the FAR.
Mayor Dobson stated that this had been done once before and he would
never favor such an action. At this juncture both the representatives
of the Bank and Mr. Morcus, having completed their: presentations, left
the meeting.
Pace 2
Trustee White stated his opinion that if the Commission were to change „
the zoning to HDMF, the PA zone might as Well be eliminated. Trustee
Kindel suggested that the PA and HDMF zones be combined with the
addition of a requirement for public recreation facilities and a lobby
area. Chairman Slifer stated his opinion that HDMF is too permissive
a zone as are some aspects of PA such as the allowance for office space.
He could agree with combining the two zones and allowing MF to become
the zone for apartments. Trustee White, referring the problem back
to the question of original intent, indicated that his understanding was that
they were trying to generate higher, occupancy which could support shops
and restaurants. Condominiums would not generate this business and
hence Vail would be a more sterile resort. Trustee Staufer agreed with
this position that the condominium renter spends less money in the Town
than the person who rents only a room. Mayor Dobson disagreed to the
extent that the question for him is whether we are dense enough already.
In addition, he thought it an interesting point that at present lodgings are
built without amenities; a requirement for these facilities. might contribute
noticeably to the Town. Mr. Minger.summarize..d that the proposal thus
far was to combine PA and rHDMF7, taking the best of each and adding the
requirement of recreational amenities. In terms of the specific problem
at hand, a solution was suggested that the area in which the Bank will be
constructed be re -zoned MF, with a recommendation for granting a condi-
tional use permit to accommodate the Bank usage. The area in which
Mr. Morcus proposes to build will be' left PA and it was the Planning Com-
mission's and Board of Trustee's opinion that the project as presented by
Mr. Morcus was permissible under the present PA zone.
Additional business at this meeting included: 1 . that some move should
be made to try to lessen the density on the VA property next to Manor Vail
that is currently HDMF: 2, that the height of buildings should be controlled
by the FAR, if buildings are becoming too tall, perhaps the FAR is too high;
3. that a small meeting room in a lodge to serve guests of that lodge should
be exempted from the per -seat parking requirement; 4. that there has been
no final decision on the parking structure, the money allocated was for pre-
liminary studies; 5, that at a future meeting a decision must be reached on
the Holy Cross Electric franchise proposal; 6. that an information session
for the benefit of new members will be held in the near future.
As there was no further business, the meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m.
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