HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-07-17 Town Council MinutesVail Town Council Meeting Minutes
Tuesday, July 17, 2012
6:00 P.M.
Vail Town Council Chambers
The regular meeting of the Vail Town Council was called to order at approximately 6:00 P.M. by
Mayor Andy Daly.
Members present: Andy Daly, Mayor
Kerry Donovan
Kevin Foley
Ludwig Kurz
Greg Moffet
Margaret Rogers
Susie Tjossem
Staff members: Stan Zemler, Town Manager
Matt Mire, Town Attorney
Lorelei Donaldson, Town Clerk
The first item on the agenda was Proclamation No. 4, Series of 2012, honoring Pepi
Gramshammer. Daly thanked Tjossem for reminding the Council of this special event.
Each Councilmember read sections of the proclamation into the record. This proclamation
declared the Council was making August 6, 2012, Pepi Gramshammer Day in Vail on his 80th
Birthday.
Moffet made a motion to adopt the proclamation and Tjossem seconded the motion. A vote was
taken and passed unanimously, 7-0.
The second item on the agenda was Citizen Participation. Michael Cacioppo stated he sent an
open records request via email to Police Chief Dwight Henninger on July 5, 2012, and then
again on July 12, 2012. He said he had not received a response to his request to date. He said
he also spoke with Town Attorney Matt Mire. He didn't like Mire's answers or attitude and felt
disrespected by both Henninger and Mire. He said that is why the town gets regularly sued.
Daly asked if the town has met the statutory requirement. Mire said the town has met the
statutory requirement and they don't get regularly sued.
Pat Paris said she has been a resident in and out of Vail for 30 years. She said there had been
several markets in Vail village in the 1980's and now there are none. She asked the Council to
look into having a market in Vail Village.
Daly said there will be a grocery store in Ever Vail when it's built, which will be on the bus route.
He asked her to contact Ruther in the Community Development Department and he could take
her through the history and challenges of why this has happened in downtown Vail. She said a
village should always have a grocery market available in the village. The town and Vail Resorts
have always catered to the needs of the community and guests. She is frustrated that this is one
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 1
need that is not being met. She said Ever Vail will still not meet the needs of having a market in
Vail Village.
Mike Mathias stated he lives in East Vail and is on the board of the Eagle County Fair and
Rodeo. He invited the Council and community to the Eagle County Fair & Rodeo from July 25�'
through July 28th. He said statistics they have show that only 6% of the people who go to the
Eagle County Fair & Rodeo come from Vail. He said it was disturbing that the number is so low.
He encouraged everyone from Vail to attend. He said it is a great fair and rodeo that everyone
could have a good time attending.
Jonathan Levine apologized to the Council and others in the room for offending them in the
past. He said he had only wanted to be an advocate and the whistleblower. He said there were
several people stranded again in Vail over the past few weeks due to no taxi service. He said
High Mountain Taxi is not doing their job well. He found out High Mountain Taxi's telephones
were not working. He called the police department dispatch and asked if his limousine company
could respond in an emergency to a woman and her child stranded at the hospital. He was told
not to respond as they didn't have reservations with the limousine service. The police
department stated they couldn't assist in helping him break the state laws regarding limousine
regulations. He reiterated several scenarios he witnessed of people being stranded. He said
one taxi company is not enough for Vail. He said Vail needs to be customer friendly and needs
to allow various types of transportation services to respond to the needs of Vail clients. He said
this is a safety issue. He said two years ago Commander Wright banned limousines from the
village. Henninger then came back and said he would make things right. He said it wasn't
done. He wants the rules removed immediately.
Daly said the discussion regarding the limousine and taxi services will be done in the fall of
2012.
Matt Krause stated he works for Levine at Hummers of Vail, and asked why the Cadillac
Escalades used by some of the local hotels have out of state license plates on them. They are
speeding through town and are getting away with it. If the Hummers of Vail drivers speed five
miles over the limit, the Vail police pull them over. He wants this investigated and stopped. He
said he wants to pick up their guests at the bottom of Lionshead and not at the top.
Daril Cinquanta, a private detective for 21 years and a veteran of the Denver police department,
said he was the investigator regarding Levine's charges in 2004. Daly asked him not to discuss
at this time as it did not belong in public participation.
The third item on the agenda was the Consent Agenda. On the consent agenda was the
approval of the 2013 Budget Timetable and Philosophy and the approval of the meeting minutes
for June 5 and 19, 2012.
Moffet made a motion to approve the June 5, 2012, meeting minutes and the motion was
seconded by Kurz. A vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
Foley stated on the June 19`" meeting minutes there was a misspelling of a name on page
three. He said it should be Gorman, not Mormon. Donaldson will correct on final meeting
minutes.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 2
Moffet made a motion to approve the June 19th minutes as amended and the motion was
seconded by Foley. A vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
The fourth item on the agenda was the Town Manager Report. There were two items under the
town manager report: a Fire Department Restriction Update and an Eagle River Water &
Sanitation District Water Supply and Drought Update.
Fire Chief Mark Miller gave a brief update on the wild land fire restrictions. He said the rain has
helped but the BLM and Forest Service will meet tomorrow to discuss changing the fire
restrictions back to Stage 1. This is good news. The bad news is the live fuels are so dry they
won't recover this summer. If the typical "monsoon season" ends in August, this area will be
back to Stage 2 fire restrictions. The Ready Set Go program meetings are going great. The
wild land mitigation crew is working hard and is being very vigilant.
Diane Johnson with the Eagle River Water and Sanitation District (ERWSD) stated rain brings a
respite but that we are not out of the woods. ERWSD provides water from Vail to Edwards. The
stream flows are 40% of historic averages and Eagle River is 50% below average. The rain has
bought a week to 10 days of respite. The swiftness of the stream flows are what they look at to
gauge where they are. The Vail Daily has a drought watch section on the front page and fire
information in there as well. The entire state of Colorado is in severe or worse conditions for
drought. Eagle County is in extreme conditions. More than 70% is in exceptional or extreme
drought conditions. There will be no recovery but the district is hoping to get through to Labor
Day. The nation has experienced the warmest weather from last July to this June that has ever
recorded since 1895. June in Colorado was the warmest on record and the second driest on
record. The community role is the other half of the equation. To that end they are asking
people to prioritize water use at homes and cut back just as the Vail Golf Course has done.
They are targeting people using water excessively through technology. 20,000 gallons per
month or less is what they are asking people to use. If it's over that amount, they are asking
people to cut back their use. She said to call the ERWSD or look at the bill to see what you are
using.
The fifth item on the agenda was the Vail Golf and Nordic Center Clubhouse Project regarding
the 18th hole.
Daly asked people to limit their time to two minutes per person, be constructive and respectful,
turn off cell phones, and go out of the room if you have to answer a call or have side
conversations to lessen the disruptions to the meeting.
Daly said on June 19th the Council was first shown site plans for the golf course and that parking
was not an appropriate use of the property on the 18th green. The rezoning change has been
sent back to the Planning and Environmental Commission (PEC) to look at reducing the parcel
or changing operating guidelines for the club house and remodel. Daly welcomed the Vail
Recreation District (VRD) board back to the Council meeting. The VRD board Joe Hanlon, Ken
Wilson, Jeff Wiles and Bill Suarez introduced themselves as well as Mike Ortiz, Executive
Director of the VRD. Ortiz stated VRD board member Rick Sackbauer could not be at the
meeting.
Stan Zemler, Town Manager, said they have three things to cover and get direction from
Council and the VRD board. They were: 1) get general acceptance to the plan as previously
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 3
submitted as it relates to the club house; 2) get the approval by Council to allow the VRD to
proceed with an application for the realignment of the 18t�' hole; and 3) the town is withdrawing
the current application for rezoning. He said it was likely that staff would be resubmitting a
request for rezoning that has conditions attached to it. Before that, they want to hear from all
interested neighbors and other parties to make it as friendly to the community and neighborhood
as they can. Council directed them to see if an alternative could be produced to address
concerns from the last meeting.
Kevin Atkinson, an owner with Phelps -Atkinson Golf Course Design, introduced himself and
said it was good to be back. He reviewed Concepts A and B, which included netting and is
expensive; as well as Concepts C & D, which did not include netting. He reviewed how they
reached the decision that Concept F was now the best plan. He reviewed the power point. He
stated after the June 19t' meeting, they heard the concerns, comments and passion from the
public. They came up with Concept F as the best solution as submitted. He reviewed the
changes which would recommend the 18`h hole to be a par 4, keep the patio views from the club
house, protect the area with netting, add some berms and trees for landscaping, keep the
variety within hole 18, and still be a great par 4 hole.
Pedro Campos, landscape architect with Zehren and Associates, stated he has been working
hand -in -hand with Atkinson in responding to the impact of the club house facility and the
relocation of the 18th green. He reminded everyone of the goal which was to remodel the facility
that needed much improvement. He reviewed the power point presentation from Zehren and
Associates which included Concept F. He said the circulation with regard to buses and parking
concerns meet the requirements of the town with limited impact to some landscaping around the
parking lot which will need to be removed. He said shifting the hole and supplementing with
netting, there can be a nice relationship between the interior of the building as well as exterior
decks with the 18t' green. They believe this is a balanced solution to the concerns expressed at
the last meeting.
Rogers asked about the concern about the bus stop issue and the safety of the bicyclists
coming down the road. Campos said the bus stop is not fundamentally changing and has asked
the transit folks to review it. The transportation folks are the experts and they said this concept
was attainable. The bus stop is not moving.
Suarez asked if the outside patio is moving. Campos said it is moving a little bit. He said there
are trade offs and this concept captures southeastern views. Zemler asked if someone was
going to address the net to allow this possibility.
Atkinson said they know the height needed based on a study that can be achieved with a baffle
concept instead of a straight line net. They are still in an evaluation of which to use. There is
enough conversation to get a cost estimate and recognize the challenges with the netting. They
recognize the challenges of the netting as it had not been in the conversation to date. Atkinson
said it would be an additional 50 feet higher than what is there now.
Donovan asked about the memo on page six regarding the loss of range ball fees and
instructional fees versus a practice range. She asked if the loss would be very significant. Ortiz
said if they use a low enough compression ball so the balls don't go over the net, it is tough to
teach. The driving range revenue is $70,000 to $90,000 year which is significant. There would
need to be a combination of both the net and balls.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 4
Wilson said they ordered 600 low compression balls. Many individuals of different abilities use
them. When used the low compression balls still got over the net and do not solve the problem
of balls over the net on the right hand side. Daly asked what the feedback from guests was
using these balls. Wilson said it was very poor. This would clearly be a warm up range if they
are used. Suarez clarified that Concept F is to go higher with the net in certain places and not
change the balls. Atkinson said yes. His experience is that going to low compression balls is
not a great resolution. Daly asked how much the netting would cost.
Atkinson said changing the net could be $800,000.
Tjossem asked for an explanation on baffles and the step system. Ortiz said the first net would
be around 100 feet and then step up to 120 and then 130 feet.
Suarez said they have taken a lot of input and this is the fourth reiteration of the plans. He said
it was important to solve the safety issues and still have outside seating on the patio. It's
important for the whole project to get the 18t' hole the way they want it and then look more
closely at the club house remodel.
Daly said the safety issue is really an excuse and concern to increase outdoor utilization for the
club house. He said it was the redesign including the community function that leads to safety
issues.
Atkinson stated two weeks ago they had addressed the safety issue with a net. If the 18t' green
is kept there is another dangerous situation with the club house and the 18' green move, as
there is a significant issue on the right hand side of the club house. Professionally, he would
never recommend keeping the 18'h hole where it is as this is a tight spot.
Kurz said after the last meeting he asked for a site visit to see how much work had been done to
the 18t' hole and golf course improvements in other areas. He said it was obvious this project
was not done overnight. He thanked the VRD board for their foresight and improvements on the
golf course. He said low compression balls don't seem to solve anything as people play to see
how far they can hit the ball at high altitude. This is counterproductive of what they are trying to
accomplish.
Wilson said this option became available when Council said they may have to put more money
into it. The proposal was not presented earlier as it would be in the path of the golf course. The
moving of the 18t' hole was in a 2010 master plan.
Daly asked for public comment.
Bob Armour stated he worked at the Vail golf course and commended all the hard work and
compromises he has seen. He is concerned with baffling and would not want to lose the driving
range. He prefers looking into going up higher with the nets and not losing the driving range.
Atkinson said it does narrow the driving range but they are still looking at this part.
Rob Levine said he is an avid golfer and when conference center funds with alternatives were
approved by voters, it was meant to attract new business. He encouraged everyone not
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 5
sacrifice improvement of the golf course club house and expanded possibilities and to keep the
economy in mind.
Gretchen Busse, who lives on Sunburst, had a question about the site plan on rezoning and if it
included a cut in a berm.
Campos said it did but the rezoning is being withdrawn. Hall said on the site plan, a cut was for
the bus and bus exit only as this was for professional bus drivers. Daly asked if there is a gate
or something to make others not use this area. Hall said that is a possibility.
Busse said her concern was about the downhill curve, buses, pedestrians and bicyclists in the
same area. She said it would also require five big trees to be removed that her homeowner's
association planted. She wants the exit lane for buses to be reconsidered.
Stephen Connolly echoed Armour about the changes that have been made. He asked about
the low compression balls and the cost about practice versus warm up fees.
Atkinson said he can't give a concrete number as it's fiscally hard to determine. When he is
warming up, he still wants to find out how far he can hit the ball as well as other things.
Connolly asked if they were testing low compression balls. Ortiz said they tried six different
types and had a good sampling. Additional discussion ensued about various types of golf balls.
Brett Schoenfeld, with the Vail Cascade, said he ran a golf resort in Virginia that was host of
nine U.S.G.A. golf events. He is a 5 handicap golfer and said he would not use low
compression balls and would not take lessons with low compression balls. He said moving the
green forward would make it better for playability, and making it a par 4 versus a par 5 is not a
big deal. Golfers play the golf courses to whatever the course is laid out. One of the goals
approving the ballot question was to spend money redoing the VGCC and to have a multi -use
facility for more events and weddings. He said Vail has a deficiency of sites for having
weddings and other events. He believes there are ways to make this work harmoniously.
Gene Henry was impressed by the amount of work done so far. He appreciated everybody's
efforts and time they have put into this project.
Dale Bugby said he manages the Sunburst Condominiums and is a 10 handicap. He said when
the parking lot was moved from the 18th hole site, he thought moving the 18th hole was not an
issue anymore. He said VRD promised him they wouldn't change the 180h hole, but it is still
being moved. He said the only safety hazard is around the clubhouse. A simple solution would
be to move the weddings and other events indoors or put them on the roof. He listed several
items on why to keep the 18th hole where it is including: getting the clubhouse built this decade
before the town gets sued; golfers want the 18th hole to stay where it is; the neighbor's won't
sue the town; the voters only wanted a new clubhouse; the zoning is for recreational use not for
general use; the deed restriction on the golf course specifically prohibits other uses; the safety
debate doesn't' hold water as only one guy has been hit on the 18th hole; the VRD board never
wanted change to 18th hole; and the hoteliers don't support the event center. He spoke with five
hotel representatives and they did not support the event center and felt it would directly compete
with their business. He also said if the 18t hole is kept where it is, he would not come to any
more Council meetings.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 6
Deborah Webster said the Pulis deed restriction should have put up red flags to Council with
regard to having a multi -use facility there. She also said no one reached out to the neighbors
for their input on the changes to the VGCC prior to May 2012. She asked if tents would be
allowed on this site. Zemler stated there are no tents shown on the drawings but it could
happen at different events if there was a request. She was also concerned about the noise from
events.
Steven Blanchard read a letter by Stephen Chotin into the record which referenced his previous
emails to Council.
Glen Hilliard thanked the Council and VRD for working to continue to resolve issues. He said
there is a perceived need to have an events center. He said the hotels wouldn't put there funds
into something like this. The community does want to remodel the VGCC and preserve the 181h
hole. He doesn't want an events center in his neighborhood. He said this has been a poor
process. We should back up and be thoughtful about what we are trying to accomplish.
Art Abplanalp said he represented multiple property owners adjacent to the golf course. He
presented a packet of information to Council with a copy of the golf course deed, Council
minutes of August 2 and 16, 2011, and an email from Warren Pulis. He said the neighbors were
not properly notified and this project isn't fully developed or clearly thought out. The current
time constraint doesn't allow for more input. He asked to defer activity on this project for a year
to allow property owners and the town to work together on a mutually agreeable outcome for
this project and the process to work.
Michael Cacioppo stated there have been weddings and parties at the golf course for 30 years.
He is not a NIMBY (not in my back yard) person. He doesn't buy the theory that adjacent
property owners were losing the property values of their homes by these changes. He said
most places he has lived the property values were increased. He respectfully disagrees with
the opponents. They all pay taxes and everyone understands the need to be considerate of the
neighborhood. If there is sound after 10 p.m. at night, they can get the problem solved.
Windows can be added to help with sound. He said as far as the foot print of the building, this
language wasn't in the ballot. When his newspaper endorsed this ballot question, they thought
they were improving the space to include a multi -use facility to allow wedding and party facilities
to help bring in guests as the hotels are booked in the summer. That is what the conference
center funds were to be used for.
Lee Chapman said we do need a clubhouse and it's important to everyone. He doesn't feel the
multi -use facility is needed and a golf course should be a golf course. He said the whole venue
won't work financially.
Jim Lamont, representing the Vail Village Homeowners Association, said they need to move
beyond the grand standing. He said all sides have valid points of view but they need to move
forward to leave the neighborhood in tact. He suggested having a management agreement to
address neighborhood issues and have it on paper. He wants staff, Council members and the
VRD board members to sit down in a meeting with the adjacent homeowners and arrive at
harmonious language so substance is there on what compromise is attained. There also should
be money spent to support and resolve these issues in a harmonious way.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 7
Daly thanked everyone for commenting.
Tjossem said she is disappointed to hear the neighborhood was not brought into the process
sooner. She said it's not too much to ask to speak with the neighbors as dialogue is important.
She said we do live in a resort community and the town and VRD are not changing the uses of
this building but bringing it up to Vail standards.
Donovan asked what steps Council is trying to accomplish this evening.
Moffet stated the staff recommendations per the memorandum which were to make a decision
on proceeding with the building design as previously presented to the Council; provide parking
as presented in the revised design on July 3; relocate the 18th hole as per concept F and with
final design reviewed by the VRD and Design Review Board; amend the budget as necessary to
address the recommended changes and direct staff to withdraw the rezoning application at this
time and to be modified for future zoning applications.
Moffet said he grew up on the 16t' green of the golf course. They have events and weddings at
the club house all the time. He asked that the public lay off the inflammatory statements. He
got married at the golf course clubhouse. He said Cacioppo's statements were spot on. Rob
Levine had salient points with the conference center funds to be used to bring heads in beds,
including a club house that accommodates weddings as that was on the ballot. The ballot
language expands and renovates the golf course clubhouse. That is abundantly clear. He was
disappointed that Warren Pulis was told that an event center was going to be added on the site
and it was misdirected information. He is prepared to adopt staff recommendations.
Kurz said he agrees with most comments Moffet made. He agrees the homeowners in that area
need more attention with some type of management agreement. Golf will not be impacted to
the degree they have heard. He supports the motion to continuing this with a caveat that the
homeowners have legitimate concerns that need to be addressed.
Moffet made a motion to approve the staff recommendations and the motion was seconded by
Kurz.
Rogers is in favor except for the amended budget as necessary for changes. She wants to know
the cost, what funds should be paying for what things. She wants to make sure conference
center funds are spent on the appropriate building. She said they should amend the budget as
necessary. She is in favor of the motion.
Moffet amended his motion to adopt staff recommendations on pages 7and 8 with the addition
that the staff and boards work with the neighbors more closely and any amendments to the
budget must have the prior approval of Council. Kurz seconded the amended motion.
Donovan asked if this moves the project forward.
Mire said the VRD will file an application and go through the process. The PEC has final say on
what gets approved. He also stated the town if definitely withdrawing its rezoning application.
Zemler said it takes 30 days to engage neighbors before submitting to PEC. So he requested
the timeframe be moved to give some level of comfort to the neighbors.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 8
Rogers said this is a clear message to give VRD approval to move forward on moving the 18"'
green, with approval of Concept F, with final design review by VRD and DRB. Joe Hanlon said
it went through their VRD board meeting and a majority of the board members approved
Concept F.
Further discussion ensued. Donovan is supporting the motion as they can call it up in the future
and it's important to get this to an application level to address concerns.
Daly agreed with Zemler's suggestion to slow down the process for 30 days and give property
owners and other interested parties to add their input into the process and come back to Council
at a later date. The 4h bullet point from staffs recommendation was deleted at this time.
Moffet amended his motion to add a delay with building design for 30 days and the 18th hole will
still be there for the rest of the golf season. Kurz seconded the amended motion. A vote was
taken and it was passed unanimously, 7-0.
Zemler said the meeting with the adjacent neighbors will be at the Vail Golf Course Clubhouse
next Tuesday, July 24, 2012, at 1:00 p.m.
The sixth item on the agenda was a discussion regarding the Vail Shuttle and Courtesy Car
Alternatives.
Tom Kassmel, Staff Engineer, said the Town of Vail has seen a significant increase in the
volume and frequency of shuttles and hotel courtesy vehicles in the past few years as a result of
the successful Vail Billion Dollar Redevelopment. Many convenient areas that are within close
proximity to Vail Mountain and to both the Lionshead and Vail Villages are now being overused
for the drop-off and pick-up of guests. Currently the town does not have any policies or
regulations specific to these services. The increase of these services has become problematic
for critical portal areas to the mountain and the Villages and other congested neighborhood
areas, causing safety issues and congestion. On March 6'h, Council directed staff to develop
alternatives for solving these issues. The town staff held a public meeting on April 16th to
discuss these issues and to receive feedback from the public. As a result of this meeting, input
from Council on March 6th, and internal staff discussions, staff presented three draft alternative
solutions to the shuttle/courtesy car operators. The alternates were emailed to the operators on
June 6th, with an open meeting to discuss the alternates on June 13th.
There were three alternates discussed. Alternate 1, which is the staffs preferred alternative,
includes a combination of shuttle and courtesy car registration, shuttle scheduling, location
restrictions and capital improvements. In general this alternative restricts the number of shuttles
arriving at any one location to scheduled times, and to a maximum of three or four at any one
time, including the Lionshead Welcome Center (LHWC), Lionshead Transit Center (LHTC), the
Vail Transportation Center (VTRC) and Golden Peak. It requires all courtesy cars to use signed
skier drop off locations and 15 minute parking zones only, restricts shuttles from the Hansen
Ranch Road area and restricts all shuttle and courtesy car activity from the Mountain Haus
area. Suggested capital improvements include: modifications to the Lionshead skier drop to
allow for a safer and more efficient one way loop with designated courtesy car spaces; extend
LHWC shuttle drop-off area by one shuttle length; provide additional signage and RFI readers
installed at drop off locations to track usage and mitigate abuse. Shuttles and courtesy cars
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 9
would be required to register and comply with designated policies. It would be expected that the
shuttle and courtesy car drivers/operators would assist in policing activities and report issues
and abuse.
The second alternative and the most restrictive, with no shuttles at LHWC, is the same as
Alternate I with the following exceptions: 1) shuttles would not be allowed to use the area in
front of the LHWC; 2) all shuttle activity in the east Lionshead area would be required to use the
LHTC on a scheduled basis. This Frontage Road drop-off location is 400' longer walk and
requires the use of stairs or elevator. This would be almost identical to the walk distance at the
VTRC; and 3) the LHWC would be used for In -Town buses only and the current shuttle area
would be removed and signed for courier loading and delivery only (FedEx, UPS, USPS).
The third alternative is least restrictive and accommodated more shuttles at LHWC and is the
same as Alternate I with the following exceptions: 1) shuttles would be restricted to LHWC,
VTRC and Golden Peak with no scheduled times; however, scheduling would be implemented
on an as needed basis; 2) in addition to the capital improvements noted in Alternate I, this
alternate would extend the LHWC shuttle drop-off area by five shuttle lengths as previously
presented in earlier Council meetings.
He said the majority of user feedback was not favorable to any scheduling. The hotels wait for a
full shuttle and don't always go to specific sites. For the courtesy cars in Lionshead, the skier
drop-off area can't accommodate the larger SUV's with cargo boxes as they don't fit.
Rogers asked where they put guest skis and snowboards. Kassmel said it varies with the
vehicles. Rogers asked how many vehicles are affected that can't get into the Lionshead
Welcome Center area drop-off. Kassmel said probably 1 /3 of the vehicles used wouldn't fit.
Further discussion ensued on the Lionshead Welcome Center drop-off and area usage. He
also discussed the cost for the alternatives. He said staff preferred Alternative 1 as it allows for
scheduling of the shuttles and courtesy cars to alleviate congestion.
Rogers said on a powder day this could be a problem as certain lodges will be at a
disadvantage if they are scheduled later. Kassmel said they looked at that and said with the
shuttles they could provide each operator three slots within an hour.
Rogers asked why they didn't figure this out when the Welcome Center was built and how did it
fall through cracks. Kassmel said it didn't fall through the cracks. They had always looked at
putting the shuttles and courtesy cars on the top deck and in the bus lanes. But everyone says
it feels like the drop-off is ten miles away. In 2009, they were regularly seeing 3-5 shuttles.
Today they have seen a huge jump in the numbers. There is a big conflict with pedestrians,
deliveries and drop-offs at the bus stops.
Donovan said Alternative 1 seems like spending a few hundred thousand dollars still doesn't
alleviate shuttles going down the chute and in front of the Welcome Center. Kassmel said the
shuttle buses would still go down to same location but not the courtesy cars. The current
specific task is to alleviate the number of shuttles at one time. They need to maintain two lanes
of traffic. Work now is to eliminate loading and delivery at the drop-off zone and move them to
the Arrabelle loading and delivery area. Only personal vehicles would be allowed at the drop-
off.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 10
Roger asked why the shuttle buses couldn't be at the top of the parking structure. Kassmel said
the structural capacity on the top deck of Lionshead is an issue. Every structural engineer staff
has spoken to has said no to more weight. Rogers asked if reinforcements could be added.
Kassmel said yes, but at a significant expense.
Foley said it's a nice problem to have, getting people on Vail Mountain. He said he agrees with
shuttles being down behind the bus stop area but courtesy cars need to be marked and not let
down in this area. He said the town has a coming ski season to work out a plan, get it figured
out, and the cost to reinforce the southwest corner of structure. The town needs some type of
registration and regulations in place. He said work with the hotels and lodges to get this worked
out. He said when lodges are down there five times in one hour; the question should be asked
is it a necessity or just a courtesy. Will readers help figure out how to make a plan work.
Moffet said instead of spending $150,000 for equipment, use human resources, not mechanical
resources, for this ski season. Man the gate and take a season to work it out rather than force a
solution.
Tjossem said when remodeling, the shuttles were lining up to the east of the bus stop so they
wouldn't be able to come all way to the front door. Kassmel said there is enough room for three
to four shuttles but when there are ten to twelve, it creates chaos. There is also a problem when
people cross the street wherever the shuttle stops and not at the crosswalk.
Jonathan Levine said scheduling is unacceptable. He said if they take into account the flow of
the traffic and staging, it does create a problem. He said that staging vehicles should go away.
You load when there are guests and then you leave. If you don't have guests, you leave. Flow
is very important. There is only one way out of Lionshead currently. He wants the town to
consider opening up access in front of the Dobson Ice Arena and allow them to go east and
keep everyone moving. No one is sitting or speeding. He said some of the things that work are
to mark the vehicles, keep track of the flow, keep the vehicles moving, and track the offenders
this way. He said doing a one way loop down into this area, move the cars east and then loop
back from the Frontage Road will work. There needs to be enforcement of this process to make
it work.
Levine said making a loop through Meadow Drive would allow them to come back, no stopping,
no oversize vehicles and keep everything moving. He said offenders would not be allowed to
come back. There would need to be enforcement and everyone would need to be held
accountable.
Michael Cacioppo stated that solution would make all the vehicles go all the way to First Bank
on Vail Road. He asked if there was a possibility to have vehicles leave on the other side of the
Lionshead Parking Structure instead of going all the way to Vail Road. He said another obvious
solution is get Ever Vail going. Another idea is to park at Ford Park and add a Blue Sky Basin
gondola started at Ford Park.
Rogers said the town would be removing gates.
Jeff Miller, Director of Rooms and Residences at the Four Seasons, has worked with Kassmel
on this project and he supports permits and a trial basis of a loop schedule. Define what a
courtesy car, van and shuttle are and try this plan out. Also make sure staff is moving people
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 11
along. He offered his time to help Kassmel come up with improvements that can work for
everybody.
Daly asked Miller about an opportunity to use electric carts on some of the streets.
Miller said this limits the lodges and hotels on the capacity of what they can carry and would fill
up the streets with golf carts. A shuttle van fits twelve people and regular vans seat six. This
would impact and limit where you could go. Rogers asked if the courtesy cars fit in the drop-off
area. Miller said yes.
John Sentinel, with the Ritz Carlton Club and Residences, said scheduling time slots does not
work after the review of the alternatives. He said the flow and ease of getting customers around
requires speedy service for guests and he would like to see Alternative 3 adopted. He likes the
human component. It will take all of them to educate guests and clients on how this would work
and is the responsibility of everyone.
Tom Massa, Assistant General Manager of the Wren, said some guests are on a budget but the
guests still expect good service. The Wren prefers Alterative 3. He said scheduling doesn't
work. Who would be figuring out who gets priority of the best time slots and sees this will be an
issue. The service aspect of their business is important and taking away potential revenues is
terrible. The Wren's guests mainly want to be dropped off at Golden Peak but if guests want to
go to Lionshead or Vail Village, they will take them there.
Bob Lazier, owner of the Tivoli Lodge, said the recommendation for Hanson Ranch Road was
for courtesy vehicles only but that is still a problem. They have had a lot of problems with
parking in that area. Hanson Ranch Road is becoming more and more a pedestrian area. It is a
dangerous spot and it's growing. He would like to see Hanson Ranch Road be a pedestrian
area. Just courtesy cars in the area are positive.
Rogers asked about not allowing any shuttles near the Christiania area. She said this would
eliminate the general public going there as well. She said there was a 10 minute parking sign
there that encouraged people to leave their cars. Greg Hall said that was for after 6 p.m.
Rogers was not in favor of scheduling as it was not a fair process. She encouraged staff to
work with the lodging community to make it work and to use the coming season to see what
works. She doesn't want to pay $150,000 and thinks Alternative 3 is the best solution at this
time. Donovan said she is leaning toward alternative 3 but with restrictions on Hanson Ranch
Road. She said requiring registration of the vehicles may solve more issues and is a great first
step.
Moffet said there needs to be restrictions on Hanson Ranch Road as it was not designed for a
skier drop-off. Foley said registering the vehicles and being able to identify offenders will help.
They can also ask them why they are abusing the system. The town has a ski season to work it
out. He said requiring visible identification on each vehicle is needed and adding a gate in the
Lionshead structure is a good idea. Tjossem said this gives the town an opportunity to look at
other alternatives. She said in Zermatt, Switzerland, they require hotels to use electric carts that
hold 12 people to move folks around town. Moffet said anything that congests the traffic near
the buses is problematic. Kurz said he would rather spend money on people than infrastructure
to make it work at this time. Daly said he also supports using the next season to work this out.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 12
Daly said he has seen the courtesy cars stop at Meadow Drive and Vail Road and this needs to
stop.
Kassmel reiterated Council's direction on this matter: Alternative 3, with no scheduling of
courtesy cars, vans and shuttles at this time; registration of the vehicles, no transponders; and
look into a one way loop in the Lionshead parking structure by adding a gate. Kassmel said the
addition of a gate may cost approximately $25,000 to $30,000 to implement. The last item was
to spend resources on man power versus equipment.
Daly said staff should come back to Council with a budget with the cost of using people versus
equipment.
Bob Lazier asked if this included removing vehicles on Hanson Ranch Road. Daly said no
shuttles will be on Hanson Ranch Road and to add signage in this area.
Further discussion ensued. Kassmel will bring back this item to Council with more details on
budget costs.
The seventh item on the agenda was an update on the Vail's 50th Anniversary.
Adam Sutner, with Vail Resorts, said he sits on this committee and they are working on great
plans. He said the information presented is representative of the best possible thinking out
there. He discussed the details in the memorandum and the power point presentation which
included details for the anniversary opening, film premier, concerts and other aspects of the
anniversary celebration that occurs throughout this winter season. They will also be launching a
new website on August 1s' with all the information on the 50'h Anniversary on it.
Daly asked about the request for additional funds for $100,000 in the budget supplemental, as
the town has already allocated $450,000 to this event. Sutner said this is to get a better A -list
musical talent and the additional $100,000 would go for a higher quality of bands. He said
normally the talent budget for Snow Daze is $250,000 and for this concert it would be around
$600,000 to $700,000. It would give relevance to the 50th Anniversary and come back strong
and enticing. It would send a loud signal that Vail is Vail. This is a modest offset to a vast cost
for the headliner.
Sutner said the opening of the Gondola Ribbon Cutting will be on December 141h and the
gondola will be open to the public on the 151h of December.
The eighth item on the agenda was first reading of Ordinance No. 9 Series 2012, and
ordinance making budget adjustments to the Town of Vail General Fund, Capital Projects Fund,
Real Estate Transfer Tax Fund, Dispatch Services Fund and Heavy Equipment Fund. This item
also includes discussion of off -cycle contribution funding requests.
Kathleen Halloran, Budget Manager reviewed the memorandum with Council. She said the off -
cycle request did not include $100,000 for Vail 50th Anniversary.
Further discussion regarding various aspects of the budget memorandum and the 501h
Anniversary ensued.
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 13
Foley Made a motion to ap�rove first reading of Ordinance No. 9, Series 2012, with the addition
of $100,000 for the Vail 50t Anniversary and the motion was seconded by Moffet. A vote was
taken and the motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
The ninth item on the agenda was Ordinance No. 2, Series of 2012, an ordinance amending
Chapter 12-6, Residential Districts, Vail Town Code, pursuant to Section 12- 3-7, Amendment,
Vail Town Code, to establish a new zone district, Vail Village Townhouse (VVT) District, and
setting forth details in regard thereto; and Resolution No. 7, Series of 2012, amending Chapter
VII, Vail Village Sub -Areas, East Gore Creek Sub -Area (#6), Vail Village Master Plan, pursuant
to Chapter Vill, Implementation and Amendment, Vail Village Master Plan, to include
recommendations related to a new Vail Village Townhouse (VVT) District, and setting forth
details in regard thereto.
Moffet made a motion to continue Resolution No. 7, Series of 2012, and the second reading of
Ordinance No. 2, Series of 2012, to its August 7, 2012, public hearing with the condition that this
is the last continuance and the motion was seconded by Donovan. A vote was taken and the
motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
The tenth item on the agenda was a request to continue the Ever Vail major subdivision and
Ordinance Nos. 7, 8 and 9, Series of 2011, to the August 21, 2012, public hearing.
Moffet made a motion to continue the Ever Vail major subdivision and Ordinance Nos. 7, 8 and
9, Series of 2011, to the August 21, 2012, public hearing and the motion was seconded by
Kurz/Tjossem. A vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously, 7-0.
Zemler said staff has had a couple of meetings with Vail Resorts and they are waiting for a
response from last letter sent to them.
The eleventh item on the agenda was adjournment.
As there was no further business, Moffet made a motion to adjourn and the motion was
seconded by Foley. A vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously, 7-0. The meeting
adjourned at 10: 20 p.m.
Respe Submitted,
Attest:
Andrr�w P. Daly, M ^r
JCV� O F Vq
Lo I i onaldson, Town Clerk pk'k•••' '•••�
•
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flLORP
Town Council Meeting Minutes of July 17, 2012 Page 14